The Irish border

[Trolleys Thank You]

amusingduck said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

Absolutely.

FAO the mods. Why have I been banned from a certain topic? Some posters are far more pernickety than me. Granted, I don't hold the the majority view on here regarding suppressing true democracy in this country but does that warrant me being silenced?

"I wasn't the worst offender" is a piss poor defense.

I'm not even sure what the offence was tbh.

[alfie2244]

Trolleys Thank You said:

I'm not even sure what the offence was tbh.

Any fit your postings?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/rules.asp

[anonymous-user]

Trolleys Thank You said:

I'm not even sure what the offence was tbh.

It will be for persistent bickering.

There are a number of posters on both sides of the debate that take up endless pages with boring exchanges that about to little more than personal point scoring.

Hopefully the recent cull will allow for discussion now.

[Trolleys Thank You]

alfie2244 said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

I'm not even sure what the offence was tbh.

Any fit your postings?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/rules.asp

8. Do not post any NSFW (Not Safe For Work) images, links, gifs, or clips on any thread.

Ah, it was that picture of Jeremy Wright's empty conference room. Nobody should have to witness that. I'm sorry.

[del mar]

Probably.

We write a lot of eu insurance, there is a plan but it appears to cost 3%.

A small change but will effect what we write and the profit from it, ohh an any bonus paid ...

I have a flat in France, there are always looking to screw me, so I expect no change there.

[Welshbeef]

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

It's free movement of labour that impinges on the Single Market? If Ireland's happy with the CTA, the UK's happy with it, the EU's happy with it then it's a non-problem. Wish everything else was as agreeable.

Why are Ireland not in agreeement with the CTA?

I didn't say that. I said the opposite of that.

Ok in which case why are ROI against the CTA bi lateral agreement? When was it disbanded - not sure any notification was given.

Does it also mean the GFA can simply be ignored by one side or the other if they choose?

[Mrr T]

Vanden Saab said:

s2art said:

Mrr T said:

Vanden Saab said:

Rejoin the WTO? Are you suggesting that we are not currently a member?

The UK was a member of the WTO it is now a member as part of the EU when the UK leave the EU it must rejoin.

Wrong. Anyone can google and find the WTO website, and guess what? The WTO thinks the UK is a member. So who do I believe, the WTO or you?

Correct answer

WTO website said:

This page gathers information on the United Kingdom's participation in the WTO. The United Kingdom has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 and a member of GATT since 1 January 1948. It is a member State of the European Union (more info). All EU member States are WTO members, as is the EU (until 30 November 2009 known officially in the WTO as the European Communities for legal reasons) in its own right.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/u...

Its a bit more complex than that:

https://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about...

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/can-the-uk-rejoin-w...

https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/uk-an...

I know research is complex.

Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 2nd October 12:25

[Vanden Saab]

Mrr T said:

Vanden Saab said:

s2art said:

Mrr T said:

Vanden Saab said:

Rejoin the WTO? Are you suggesting that we are not currently a member?

The UK was a member of the WTO it is now a member as part of the EU when the UK leave the EU it must rejoin.

Wrong. Anyone can google and find the WTO website, and guess what? The WTO thinks the UK is a member. So who do I believe, the WTO or you?

Correct answer

WTO website said:

This page gathers information on the United Kingdom's participation in the WTO. The United Kingdom has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 and a member of GATT since 1 January 1948. It is a member State of the European Union (more info). All EU member States are WTO members, as is the EU (until 30 November 2009 known officially in the WTO as the European Communities for legal reasons) in its own right.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/u...

Its a bit more complex than that:

https://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about...

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/can-the-uk-rejoin-w...

https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/uk-an...

I know research is complex.

Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 2nd October 12:25

Research must be complex for you... nothing in any of those three links says that we are not a member of the WTO or that we will in any way be prevented from trading with anyone else now or in the future. In fact they all state quite clearly the exact opposite.

[don'tbesilly]

Vanden Saab said:

Mrr T said:

Vanden Saab said:

s2art said:

Mrr T said:

Vanden Saab said:

Rejoin the WTO? Are you suggesting that we are not currently a member?

The UK was a member of the WTO it is now a member as part of the EU when the UK leave the EU it must rejoin.

Wrong. Anyone can google and find the WTO website, and guess what? The WTO thinks the UK is a member. So who do I believe, the WTO or you?

Correct answer

WTO website said:

This page gathers information on the United Kingdom's participation in the WTO. The United Kingdom has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 and a member of GATT since 1 January 1948. It is a member State of the European Union (more info). All EU member States are WTO members, as is the EU (until 30 November 2009 known officially in the WTO as the European Communities for legal reasons) in its own right.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/u...

Its a bit more complex than that:

https://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about...

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/can-the-uk-rejoin-w...

https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/uk-an...

I know research is complex.

Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 2nd October 12:25

Research must be complex for you... nothing in any of those three links says that we are not a member of the WTO or that we will in any way be prevented from trading with anyone else now or in the future. In fact they all state quite clearly the exact opposite.

Mrr T's research led him to write this:

Mrr T said:

The UK was a member of the WTO it is now a member as part of the EU when the UK leave the EU it must rejoin.

Then this:

Mrr T said:

I know research is complex.

Mrr T clearly does find it complex

[slow_poke]

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

It's free movement of labour that impinges on the Single Market? If Ireland's happy with the CTA, the UK's happy with it, the EU's happy with it then it's a non-problem. Wish everything else was as agreeable.

Why are Ireland not in agreeement with the CTA?

I didn't say that. I said the opposite of that.

Ok in which case why are ROI against the CTA bi lateral agreement? When was it disbanded - not sure any notification was given.

Does it also mean the GFA can simply be ignored by one side or the other if they choose?

Who said the RoI is against CTA? This is indeed majorly big news! What's your source? As I understood it, RoI was extremely keen from the outset to see the CTA preserved post Brexit.

[slow_poke]

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

It's free movement of labour that impinges on the Single Market? If Ireland's happy with the CTA, the UK's happy with it, the EU's happy with it then it's a non-problem. Wish everything else was as agreeable.

Why are Ireland not in agreeement with the CTA?

I didn't say that. I said the opposite of that.

Ok in which case why are ROI against the CTA bi lateral agreement? When was it disbanded - not sure any notification was given.

Does it also mean the GFA can simply be ignored by one side or the other if they choose?

Who said the RoI is against CTA? This is indeed majorly big news! What's your source? As I understood it, RoI was extremely keen from the outset to see the CTA preserved post Brexit.

Further - It's never been disbanded. What gives you the idea that it has been? EU integration may have succeeded it in recent decades, but with that bewing rolled back by Brexit, the underlying CTA legislation is still there and still in force. Remember, CTA preceeds the EU by half a century or so.

Actually, and don't take this wrong, but do you know what the CTA actually is? From your comments and questions on it, i'm beginning to think we're talking about two different things?

[PurpleMoonlight]

Welshbeef said:

Are the EU ignoring the CTA law?

If so why

Because the CTA is not law.

It's just a mutual agreement.

[Welshbeef]

slow_poke said:

Further - It's never been disbanded. What gives you the idea that it has been? EU integration may have succeeded it in recent decades, but with that bewing rolled back by Brexit, the underlying CTA legislation is still there and still in force. Remember, CTA preceeds the EU by half a century or so.

Actually, and don't take this wrong, but do you know what the CTA actually is? From your comments and questions on it, i'm beginning to think we're talking about two different things?

In which case there isn’t an issue is there - the EU will not put up a border nor will the U.K. (and the EU cannot take N Ireland away from the U.K.). So hey we’ve solved the Irish border problem following lunch.

[SpeckledJim]

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Further - It's never been disbanded. What gives you the idea that it has been? EU integration may have succeeded it in recent decades, but with that bewing rolled back by Brexit, the underlying CTA legislation is still there and still in force. Remember, CTA preceeds the EU by half a century or so.

Actually, and don't take this wrong, but do you know what the CTA actually is? From your comments and questions on it, i'm beginning to think we're talking about two different things?

In which case there isn’t an issue is there - the EU will not put up a border nor will the U.K. (and the EU cannot take N Ireland away from the U.K.). So hey we’ve solved the Irish border problem following lunch.

Another zinger Welshbeef solution which is simple, straight-forward, and wrong.

[Mrr T]

Vanden Saab said:

Research must be complex for you... nothing in any of those three links says that we are not a member of the WTO or that we will in any way be prevented from trading with anyone else now or in the future. In fact they all state quite clearly the exact opposite.

Maybe my use of words was less precise than I would have wanted. However, the point of my post remains valid the UK maybe a member of the WTO but its activities are operated via the EU. As my links show to become an active member again the UK must carry out various tasks and other member states could object.

The poster asked yesterday if it would matter if the UK created a border in Ireland in breach of WTO rules. I said it would because (before I said the UK wanted to join the WTO but should have said) the UK needs to become a full active direct member again and creating a border which breached WTO is likely to mean other WTO countries will object to the UK request.

[slow_poke]

SpeckledJim said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Further - It's never been disbanded. What gives you the idea that it has been? EU integration may have succeeded it in recent decades, but with that bewing rolled back by Brexit, the underlying CTA legislation is still there and still in force. Remember, CTA preceeds the EU by half a century or so.

Actually, and don't take this wrong, but do you know what the CTA actually is? From your comments and questions on it, i'm beginning to think we're talking about two different things?

In which case there isn’t an issue is there - the EU will not put up a border nor will the U.K. (and the EU cannot take N Ireland away from the U.K.). So hey we’ve solved the Irish border problem following lunch.

Another zinger Welshbeef solution which is simple, straight-forward, and wrong.

Just to spell it out - the CTA covers people travelling - Irish & British nationals only - freely and unhindered between the two countries.

It doesn't cover trade and customs.

[Welshbeef]

slow_poke said:

Just to spell it out - the CTA covers people travelling - Irish & British nationals only - freely and unhindered between the two countries.

It doesn't cover trade and customs.

The GFA has zilch to do with trade and customs - so GFA not breached.

PH to the rescue again

[Vanden Saab]

Mrr T said:

Vanden Saab said:

Research must be complex for you... nothing in any of those three links says that we are not a member of the WTO or that we will in any way be prevented from trading with anyone else now or in the future. In fact they all state quite clearly the exact opposite.

Maybe my use of words was less precise than I would have wanted. However, the point of my post remains valid the UK maybe a member of the WTO but its activities are operated via the EU. As my links show to become an active member again the UK must carry out various tasks and other member states could object.

The poster asked yesterday if it would matter if the UK created a border in Ireland in breach of WTO rules. I said it would because (before I said the UK wanted to join the WTO but should have said) the UK needs to become a full active direct member again and creating a border which breached WTO is likely to mean other WTO countries will object to the UK request.

Once more before I give up... from the WTO website...

WTO said:

This page gathers information on the United Kingdom's participation in the WTO. The United Kingdom has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 and a member of GATT since 1 January 1948. It is a member State of the European Union (more info). All EU member States are WTO members, as is the EU (until 30 November 2009 known officially in the WTO as the European Communities for legal reasons) in its own right.

See the bit in bold...The UK really doesn't have to perform any tasks . That was done when it joined. Other member states can object all they like but their bleating carries no weight whatsoever. For the last time the UK is a member of the WTO in fact it was one of the cofounders and It has to do precisely the square root of fk all to continue being a member and to continue trading with the rest of the world.. Just like the EU which has NEVER rectified its own position since 1974.... never..... not once.... not even now or at any time in the last 44 years....

[Vanden Saab]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words....

[slow_poke]

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Just to spell it out - the CTA covers people travelling - Irish & British nationals only - freely and unhindered between the two countries.

It doesn't cover trade and customs.

The GFA has zilch to do with trade and customs - so GFA not breached.

PH to the rescue again

You're reaching quite a fair bit there 'beefy. The GFA is about no hard border in Ireland. That's one of the strands that sold it to the Irish Nationalist/Republican community. It's the other side coin to the guarantee of no reunification with Ireland without majority consent that the Unionist community bought into.