How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. As for depths, did you no tread what Polly Toynbee wrote in the Guardian in the aftermath of the murder?
( I'll summarise it for you - if you vote leave you are complicit in her murder)
Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. For someone who constantly bleats on about the conflict you see from your position, your posting style & content is hardly conducive to an atmosphere of unity.
Your self anointment of moral superiority is without substance. You allude to peace & harmony & yet you constantly brow-beat.
You make some very valid points in some of your posts, but to the observer, the antagonistic delivery totally obscures them.
You are the epitome of a blowhard.
There, I said it.
Seriously BV, there's no need.
Breadvan72 said:
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend.
wow, just wow. you really have succumbed to remainia if that is what you read into what was posted. very disappointing for someone held in such high regard on the forum in general. jjlynn27 said:
wisbech said:
sidicks said:
///ajd said:
You are unable to say why you want to stop FoM with the EU.
No, you just choose not to understand.///ajd said:
Though in the end the argument over immigration may well be lost if it remains as baseless as this.
As baseless as your failure to acknowledge that there is a good reason why Freedom of Movement exists nowhere outside of the EU?
Don't tell him that, he just spent last few months thinking that that's his killer argument.
It's not like that he's talking out of his ass, is it?
The incoming strawman is going to be funny.
andymadmak said:
Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. As for depths, did you no tread what Polly Toynbee wrote in the Guardian in the aftermath of the murder?
( I'll summarise it for you - if you vote leave you are complicit in her murder)
Coolbanana said:
Well, 2018 is going to be every bit as interesting as 2017 for Brexit...
The negative impact to the economy is now starting to pick up steam and is being felt not only by the most vulnerable anymore.
We have a major Poll showing a large swing to remaining in the EU, well beyond margin of error. I predict Polls will see this trend continue and increase in favour of Remain as the true identity of Brexit sinks in to the populace at large.
Phase 1 was a predicted capitulation. It started with the EU suggesting a divorce settlement of circa 40 -60 million. Davis and Boris et al guffawed and shot it down - "go whistle". TM eventually offers 20 million after the EU raised the stakes to 'possibly closer to 100 million, actually'. Then the NI Crisis Trump Card is played by the EU. The UK concedes 39 million. So...EU get around what they originally suggested and walks the UK into 'Regulatory Alignment'. Nice one, EU.
The upshot? The millions who did not vote in the Referendum are now waking up to what Brexit will actually mean. Now, they are starting to express concern and the Polls suggest that for many, they have decided upon Remain. Sufficient numbers that if continued, the Government and Parliament will have to take notice.
Labour. Confused and seemingly on the fence. Mixed signals galore. Why? Because they know that delivering what a Majority actually want now is their best shot at Power. The Tory's are stumbling. They are weak and outclassed. They are accepting that the very best they can do is a so-called 'soft Brexit'. Now, 'Canada Plus Plus Plus' is never going to happen. Leavers can stop kidding themselves. Canada with very minor tweaks is the best deal that will be available. Financial Services? Don't be so bullish as to believe they will not end up in Amsterdam and Frankfurt - at least enough to ensure the Euro isn't hurt. London meanwhile...
So, Labour then...as soon as they can see that a Majority really would like to Remain rather than accept the UK becoming a vassal Member State to the EU; a 'soft Brexit' that changes very little, they will announce themselves as firmly behind offering a 2nd Referendum with an option to Remain ; all doors will be re-opened and it'll be: The Negotiated Tory Deal or Remain.
No?
, the aforementtioned is no less unrealistic than a Brexit win the first place! Not now. Not seeing what a farce Brexit is proving to be.
The Tory Rebels, already bolstered by the latest Polls, will want to avert a Labour Catastrophe in the form of hard-line Socialism and fight ever-harder to defeat the Reece-Moggs etc. They will also push for a 2nd vote with Remain as an option.
Of course, equally likely, I agree, is that The People accept a 'soft Brexit'. It is possible and what TM is hanging her career upon. Hard Brexit? No. I reckon that has been seen for the disaster it would be now - even today, we read reports from Gove about reversing the 48 hour week that would favour Employers and their Investors more than the average Worker. The truth is emerging...a Hard Brexit vote is what led to the Referendum in the first place and it is becoming patently obvious that it was all about certain indivduals and Businesses screwing over the Man in the Street all over again; sans EU protection. Take Back Control - Screw the Little, Gullible Englander.
- pass the Port, Moggy!
Are you also ///ajd during Monday daytime ?The negative impact to the economy is now starting to pick up steam and is being felt not only by the most vulnerable anymore.
We have a major Poll showing a large swing to remaining in the EU, well beyond margin of error. I predict Polls will see this trend continue and increase in favour of Remain as the true identity of Brexit sinks in to the populace at large.
Phase 1 was a predicted capitulation. It started with the EU suggesting a divorce settlement of circa 40 -60 million. Davis and Boris et al guffawed and shot it down - "go whistle". TM eventually offers 20 million after the EU raised the stakes to 'possibly closer to 100 million, actually'. Then the NI Crisis Trump Card is played by the EU. The UK concedes 39 million. So...EU get around what they originally suggested and walks the UK into 'Regulatory Alignment'. Nice one, EU.
The upshot? The millions who did not vote in the Referendum are now waking up to what Brexit will actually mean. Now, they are starting to express concern and the Polls suggest that for many, they have decided upon Remain. Sufficient numbers that if continued, the Government and Parliament will have to take notice.
Labour. Confused and seemingly on the fence. Mixed signals galore. Why? Because they know that delivering what a Majority actually want now is their best shot at Power. The Tory's are stumbling. They are weak and outclassed. They are accepting that the very best they can do is a so-called 'soft Brexit'. Now, 'Canada Plus Plus Plus' is never going to happen. Leavers can stop kidding themselves. Canada with very minor tweaks is the best deal that will be available. Financial Services? Don't be so bullish as to believe they will not end up in Amsterdam and Frankfurt - at least enough to ensure the Euro isn't hurt. London meanwhile...
So, Labour then...as soon as they can see that a Majority really would like to Remain rather than accept the UK becoming a vassal Member State to the EU; a 'soft Brexit' that changes very little, they will announce themselves as firmly behind offering a 2nd Referendum with an option to Remain ; all doors will be re-opened and it'll be: The Negotiated Tory Deal or Remain.
No?
, the aforementtioned is no less unrealistic than a Brexit win the first place! Not now. Not seeing what a farce Brexit is proving to be. The Tory Rebels, already bolstered by the latest Polls, will want to avert a Labour Catastrophe in the form of hard-line Socialism and fight ever-harder to defeat the Reece-Moggs etc. They will also push for a 2nd vote with Remain as an option.
Of course, equally likely, I agree, is that The People accept a 'soft Brexit'. It is possible and what TM is hanging her career upon. Hard Brexit? No. I reckon that has been seen for the disaster it would be now - even today, we read reports from Gove about reversing the 48 hour week that would favour Employers and their Investors more than the average Worker. The truth is emerging...a Hard Brexit vote is what led to the Referendum in the first place and it is becoming patently obvious that it was all about certain indivduals and Businesses screwing over the Man in the Street all over again; sans EU protection. Take Back Control - Screw the Little, Gullible Englander.
- pass the Port, Moggy! Mrr T said:
One thing that amuses me about team leave and many of our purple faced posters is they all want change.
However, when you ask what changes they want they struggle to name any. It’s a bit like brexit they want it to happen they just have no idea how it should happen (or in the case of the real buffoons they ignore reality and make up impossible solutions).
A few want the UK to become some sort of north Atlantic Singapore. The problem is most have no idea how Singapore works and why its never going to happen.
If we look at the last election I suspect most people in the UK just want the government to find a magic money tree.
Read back over the several thousand posts on these threads, stripping out the playground "you smell more than we do" running battles between a handful of people and there are plenty of people who have posted non-extreme views.However, when you ask what changes they want they struggle to name any. It’s a bit like brexit they want it to happen they just have no idea how it should happen (or in the case of the real buffoons they ignore reality and make up impossible solutions).
A few want the UK to become some sort of north Atlantic Singapore. The problem is most have no idea how Singapore works and why its never going to happen.
If we look at the last election I suspect most people in the UK just want the government to find a magic money tree.
There was plenty in the run up to the referendum too that could have been tackled reasonably by the Remain camp, but wasn't.
All that was done, and all you seem to do, is latch onto the more extreme stuff. "Racists", "xenophobia", "little Englanders", "isolationist", "fishing will never cover anything"... This is easy for Remain to shoot down (hence it being latched onto) but doesn't even remotely capture what the majority want.
You are dismissing the Leave view based on extreme Leave notions. And in lumping all Leave voters in the same camp you lost the argument.
You will always lose the argument that way as those who hold those notions are small in number and hence don't tip the vote. You need to persuade the core... And they listen to your kind of dismissal about as much as they listen to extreme Leave voices.
This is interesting, anyone read this?
http://efta4uk.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-l...
I haven't had time to read more than halfway through yet, will do later.
http://efta4uk.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-l...
I haven't had time to read more than halfway through yet, will do later.
Mrr T said:
One thing that amuses me about team leave and many of our purple faced posters is they all want change.
However, when you ask what changes they want they struggle to name any. It’s a bit like brexit they want it to happen they just have no idea how it should happen (or in the case of the real buffoons they ignore reality and make up impossible solutions).
A few want the UK to become some sort of north Atlantic Singapore. The problem is most have no idea how Singapore works and why its never going to happen.
If we look at the last election I suspect most people in the UK just want the government to find a magic money tree.
Despite being a regular on here I'm amazed that Singapore has now been added to the Brexit issues !However, when you ask what changes they want they struggle to name any. It’s a bit like brexit they want it to happen they just have no idea how it should happen (or in the case of the real buffoons they ignore reality and make up impossible solutions).
A few want the UK to become some sort of north Atlantic Singapore. The problem is most have no idea how Singapore works and why its never going to happen.
If we look at the last election I suspect most people in the UK just want the government to find a magic money tree.
Breadvan72 said:
In other news, UKIP's ever charming Godfrey Bloom (Google him, but hold your nose) describes Goldman Sachs as a "Jewish Bank".
#1930s
https://twitter.com/goddersbloom/status/9426645079...
Dom Joly's NSFW response to Bloom's successive tweet is great.#1930s
https://twitter.com/goddersbloom/status/9426645079...
https://twitter.com/goddersbloom/status/9426885499...
Robertj21a said:
Despite being a regular on here I'm amazed that Singapore has now been added to the Brexit issues !
Shortly after Brexit some UK Politicians held Singapore up as an example of what the UK should aim for. (Free trade, open to new blood & new ideas) I work there at the moment 29% of the population are immigrants.
jjlynn27 said:
Rich, nobody is surprised that you got your facts wrong.
No .YOU got your facts wrong. Because you deliberately chose an incomplete "fullfact" chart (You do know that fullfact couldn't get charity status when they first started because they were deemed too political. They have it now because apparently they "changed" ) The Telegraphs article went to the end of 2016jjlynn27 said:
For the same reason that you are competing with immigrants who can't speak a word of English.
Ah, but as ever with an ignorant 
like you. You read what you want to read. Not what was said. Let me explain it to you. In my trade. Some at the top are managers with Hons degrees. There's people like me in the middle with internationally recognised Engineering qualifications. And the ones at the bottom are EE migrants with no command of the English Language. Guess what? I have to interact with them multiple times on a daily basis. I'm not competing with them for a job.
In actual fact I'm pretty well insulated for EE competition for my job. I didn't vote Leave for my own selfish reasons. I will be eligible to go and work in the EU on merit (unlike you and ajd who need FOM to give you as leg up over more qualified nonEu migrants
) I voted because it was the right thing to do for the future of the country! for the record I didn't vote Leave due to a red Bus or Farages poster. jjlynn27 said:
Would it help if I tell you that I live in the UK? Or that I lived in Croydon (Davidson Rd.) and yes, it was a sthole, but it was a place where if you are even a little bit capable you don't stay there for long, It was a sthole then, it seems that it's a sthole now, and it doesn't look like that it's going to change any time soom.
I don't believe you ever lived in that road. You lie constantly. Why should anyone believe a damn word you say?thole, but it was a place where if you are even a little bit capable you don't stay there for long, It was a sthole then, it seems that it's a sthole now, and it doesn't look like that it's going to change any time soom. jjlynn27 said:
I'd imagine that most of those immigrants are better educated than you, can't be much worse, can it?
Clearly I'm more educated. But if they WERE more educated than me, wouldn't they be using their fictitious qualifications to be plumbers/builders/marketing execs? jjlynn27 said:
And there you go again, after showing that you have no idea about immigration and where it comes from, you are back with another idiotic assertion about the level of education. Quite clearly not in a position to judge that.
I have every idea about Immigration but from your bolt hole in Finland. You don't see it. Its simple. Since 1997 there was an increase in immigrants coming to the UK to work and live. "To make a better life for themselves in the UK" Over time the type of migrant has changed. And now the vast majority are (despite your wishful protestations) not degree educated individuals heading for decent jobs. But those coming to work nmw jobs and then send money home, probably themselves in time. Have you ever considered why prior to 1997 very few people in the UK cared about immigration? Why no one cared that a German family had moved in next door? We were non plussed about that Korean family down the street who ran a take away? Probably because migration was CONTROLLED at the time far more than post 97. There were rules that meant you had to be worth more than just your passport in an EU country. The UK is a welcoming country to anyone who wants to contribute and integrate. Sadly too many of late are here to be a net loss to the country and don't want to learn English. Which is f
king stupid given it would make their lives a daman sight easier. But if you aren't playing the 40-50year long game why bother?Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. The media and Politicians USED this murder to push their agenda. The narrative was not that the murderer was a nut with mental issues. Instead it was that he was "far right Leave voter" I have no doubt he targeted Cox because she was a Remain voter. But that didn't seem to stop various outlets from trying to paint the Leave campaign as "responsible" for "radicalising this person"
Ironic given that whenever a Islamist terrorist drives a car on the pavement and kills people. The headline is always "car attack kills 5" We excuse that because we don't want to upset the jihadis!
But that's for other threads
Breadvan72 said:
In other news, UKIP's ever charming Godfrey Bloom (Google him, but hold your nose) describes Goldman Sachs as a "Jewish Bank".
#1930s
https://twitter.com/goddersbloom/status/9426645079...
Clearly Banks as institutions don't have religions.#1930s
https://twitter.com/goddersbloom/status/9426645079...
Marcus Goldman and Samuel Sachs were both Jewish though. So you could argue a case for it originally being run inline with their beliefs
I fear those on Twitter angry at Professor Bloom for 1 opinion would do better to also fire at people like Corbyn/Labour/Momentum for their continuune anti-Semitism. But they won't because "well UKIP/Tories/hate-du-jour" are more important targets that "kind old Jeremy" and his ignorant band of
s.Something else I found out just now was that GoldmanSachs gave Greece the clean bill of health required for them to join the Euro
Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. Live Stream, Barnier's senior adviser speaking at Chatham House
https://www.chathamhouse.org/livestream
https://www.chathamhouse.org/livestream
Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. CaptainSlow said:
Breadvan72 said:
andymadmak said:
But then again, perhaps if the tragic murder of Jo Cox had not been shamelessly manipulated by the Remain camp the vote to leave might have been overwhelming. We will never know.
Wow. Just Wow. Jo Cox was murdered by a far right leaver, and a PH leaver twists that event to blame the remain camp. There really are no depths to which leavers will not descend. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff