Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
768 said:
El stovey said:
It definitely was, that’s why the minutes got released early so people could put pressure on the government to adopt it in time.
When do you think it was too late to adopt the circuit breaker?
Because the minutes said as much. They were aiming for the 21st September.When do you think it was too late to adopt the circuit breaker?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
b
hstewie said:
Released on the evening of the 12th October and Starmer supporting them the next day on the 13thhstewie said:https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
El stovey said:
Released on the evening of the 12th October and Starmer supporting them the next day on the 13th
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
Captain Hindsight strikes again?https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
El stovey said:
Unlikely when that’s when the minutes were from.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
That's a paper considered at Sage 58. I was referring to the minutes from Sage 57.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Tuna said:
El stovey said:
Released on the evening of the 12th October and Starmer supporting them the next day on the 13th
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
Captain Hindsight strikes again?https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
I'd expect a question might come up around why the Government ignored the recommendation from Sage for a "short" two week circuit break only for us to go into what looks like being a longer harder lockdown a few weeks later
What do you think Johnson's explanation for his decision then and his decision now will be?
I think it'd be bluster.
It should be that it wasn't ignored but they said 2 weeks of lockdown would only buy us 4 weeks of delay based on the numbers they were looking at in mid September and he's been using the time to keep the kids in school, keep the economy going for as long as possible, increase testing capacity, provide necessary support to vaccination programmes, new plans for care homes over the winter, etc, etc. so that the country's prepared. Instead of locking down for two weeks without notice only to find if the model held up that we were weeks away from having to do it again anyway.
It should be that it wasn't ignored but they said 2 weeks of lockdown would only buy us 4 weeks of delay based on the numbers they were looking at in mid September and he's been using the time to keep the kids in school, keep the economy going for as long as possible, increase testing capacity, provide necessary support to vaccination programmes, new plans for care homes over the winter, etc, etc. so that the country's prepared. Instead of locking down for two weeks without notice only to find if the model held up that we were weeks away from having to do it again anyway.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Tuna said:
El stovey said:
Released on the evening of the 12th October and Starmer supporting them the next day on the 13th
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
Captain Hindsight strikes again?https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...
Starmer couldn’t really support them any earlier as the minutes hadn’t been released.
I'd expect a question might come up around why the Government ignored the recommendation from Sage for a "short" two week circuit break only for us to go into what looks like being a longer harder lockdown a few weeks later
What do you think Johnson's explanation for his decision then and his decision now will be?
Had hoped regional measures were enough
National lockdown was never off the table of possible measures
Timing of a full lockdown is critical to have the best benefit over the longest period
blah blah, over to you Chris ...
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Let's pretend for a moment that you're Johnson at PMQs on Wednesday.
I'd expect a question might come up around why the Government ignored the recommendation from Sage for a "short" two week circuit break only for us to go into what looks like being a longer harder lockdown a few weeks later
What do you think Johnson's explanation for his decision then and his decision now will be?
If I were standing there, I'd probably say that for the last month, shutting down places like Norfolk because there are local spikes in Manchester makes no medical sense, and would have caused massive economic damage.I'd expect a question might come up around why the Government ignored the recommendation from Sage for a "short" two week circuit break only for us to go into what looks like being a longer harder lockdown a few weeks later
What do you think Johnson's explanation for his decision then and his decision now will be?
I'd also say that giving authorities such as Manchester the chance to deal with their outbreaks as soon as possible was a priority, with the goal of avoiding a national lockdown if at all possible. They were in effect following SAGE's circuit breaker lockdown, but it's now clear (as many countries are finding) that the autumn "flu season" has overwhelmed attempts to localise infections.
TBH if I were Boris, I'd still be doing anything I could to avoid a national lockdown - I don't believe it's going to "fix" things in any meaningful way. But really, I'm still hugely aware that we're all acting on partial information, so what do I know?
Tuna said:
TBH if I were Boris, I'd still be doing anything I could to avoid a national lockdown - I don't believe it's going to "fix" things in any meaningful way. But really, I'm still hugely aware that we're all acting on partial information, so what do I know?
I'd imagine the key issue is becoming patients in hospital with covid.
Half the peak of the first wave and having doubled in the last two weeks.
Tuna said:
If I were standing there, I'd probably say that for the last month, shutting down places like Norfolk because there are local spikes in Manchester makes no medical sense, and would have caused massive economic damage.
I'd also say that giving authorities such as Manchester the chance to deal with their outbreaks as soon as possible was a priority, with the goal of avoiding a national lockdown if at all possible. They were in effect following SAGE's circuit breaker lockdown, but it's now clear (as many countries are finding) that the autumn "flu season" has overwhelmed attempts to localise infections.
TBH if I were Boris, I'd still be doing anything I could to avoid a national lockdown - I don't believe it's going to "fix" things in any meaningful way. But really, I'm still hugely aware that we're all acting on partial information, so what do I know?
He might be tempted to mention that it was made much worse by a certain Manchester Mayor playing silly buggers for far too longI'd also say that giving authorities such as Manchester the chance to deal with their outbreaks as soon as possible was a priority, with the goal of avoiding a national lockdown if at all possible. They were in effect following SAGE's circuit breaker lockdown, but it's now clear (as many countries are finding) that the autumn "flu season" has overwhelmed attempts to localise infections.
TBH if I were Boris, I'd still be doing anything I could to avoid a national lockdown - I don't believe it's going to "fix" things in any meaningful way. But really, I'm still hugely aware that we're all acting on partial information, so what do I know?
.........
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
To me, the idea of local lockdowns makes a lot of sense. If there are lots of cases in Manchester and very few in Cornwall, why would you lock down Cornwall as well?
Other countries have taken this approach as well.
Why hasn't it worked - I dont know? But I would like to understand why, before another full lockdown.
Maybe because the people who live in this country are stupid selfish entitled idiots who can not and will not follow the rules? Other countries have taken this approach as well.
Why hasn't it worked - I dont know? But I would like to understand why, before another full lockdown.
jakesmith said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
To me, the idea of local lockdowns makes a lot of sense. If there are lots of cases in Manchester and very few in Cornwall, why would you lock down Cornwall as well?
Other countries have taken this approach as well.
Why hasn't it worked - I dont know? But I would like to understand why, before another full lockdown.
Maybe because the people who live in this country are stupid selfish entitled idiots who can not and will not follow the rules? Other countries have taken this approach as well.
Why hasn't it worked - I dont know? But I would like to understand why, before another full lockdown.
Nail on head.
Never underestimate how many
s there are in this country and how terminally stupid they are.jakesmith said:
Maybe because the people who live in this country are stupid selfish entitled idiots who can not and will not follow the rules?
I went for a distanced walk with my eldest and his family yesterday. The kids are well-behaved and stayed socially distant. We parked in a pay car park and there was a queue to pay. I was the only one with a mask. I was the only one keeping distance, apart from the woman behind me who seemed receptive to my stare of hatred. I was the only one to use gloves on the pay machine, which required multiple presses of various buttons to actuate. The three in front of me all held onto the machine with their free hand in exactly the same place (why? It's not as if it or they were likely to fall over) as they were paying. There was a singular lack of social distancing along the walks. We had to take to the grass, the wet, muddy grass, a number of times to let large groups through. I was underwhelmed by thanks.
Why do people feel the need to congregate at pinch points?
Tick follows tock.
LabourList said:
Seven trade unions affiliated to the Labour Party have released a joint statement expressing “serious concerns” over the suspension of Jeremy Corbyn and urging the party leadership to “repair this damage”
Derek Smith said:
frisbee said:
The title of this thread needs to be changed:
Can Boris Johnson revive the Labour Party?
There's a lot of truth in that. He seems to be doing his best to mess up everything. It's a farce. Can Boris Johnson revive the Labour Party?
I doubt Starmer could do worse.
The Government (pretty much all governments except maybe the CCP & the Russians) are passengers on this one because they cannot control the population when it contains so many tin foil hat wearing idiots. Those who somehow think that simple requests to change the way they live just a bit for a relatively short period of time are somehow going to lead to a permanent erosion of their " 'uman roights" . t
ts abound sadly.Supports the lockdown until the R rate is below 1
https://order-order.com/2020/11/01/starmer-we-need...
Just to remind us that both parties are 2 cheeks of the same arse
https://order-order.com/2020/11/01/starmer-we-need...
Just to remind us that both parties are 2 cheeks of the same arse
A Winner Is You said:
Supports the lockdown until the R rate is below 1
https://order-order.com/2020/11/01/starmer-we-need...
Just to remind us that both parties are 2 cheeks of the same arse
Did he not call for a lockdown a few weeks ago and Boris suggested he did not know what he was talking about? https://order-order.com/2020/11/01/starmer-we-need...
Just to remind us that both parties are 2 cheeks of the same arse
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