Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

[Edinburger]

Edinburger said:

Hang on a sec, I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past?

Shall we talk about ethnic cleansing carried out by the English then? Highland clearances, anyone?

Interesting that none of you responded to this point...

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

Interesting that none of you responded to this point...

Actually, you mentioned Churchill, which started that ball rolling.

[thinfourth2]

Edinburger said:

thinfourth2 said:

Edinburger said:

Yes, I know Labour. They inherited a sorry economic situation and made it considerably worse. And then the current lot turned up and have made no significant difference so far.

So you want them to take over running Scotland

As unless the secret party pop up its going to be labour

Where did I say that I want Labour to take over running Scotland?

I didn't. You're assumning that.

Why wouldn't the SNP win the first Scottish GE? I agree that party will dissolve at some point but they've done a damn good job since taking power, in my view.

Oh, silly me, I forgot we can't have fatties in power...

Here we go again

The great expert has told us that the SNP will split after the referendum

Can't vote tory as they are still run by maggie thatcher

Lib dems have no chance

Which leaves the greens or the labour party

[Edinburger]

WhereamI said:

Edinburger said:

Scotland is a country, not just a region of the UK

And because Scotland is a country, it is quite outrageous that the Conservatives governed Scotland when only one or two constituencies in the whole of Scotland voted for them.

That's the point.

Politically Scotland is a region of the UK. It has no more status in the context of the UK than Yorkshire does, or the West Midlands or Wales.

Scotland has its own legal system, its own internationally recognised border, its own educational system, its own economy and GDP, its own government, its own public services and police forces, etc.

Therefore I think most people would recognise Scotland as a country.

[Edinburger]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

Interesting that none of you responded to this point...

Actually, you mentioned Churchill, which started that ball rolling.

Yes, and then I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past and I pointed out a couple of England's misdemeanours and, as expected, silence...

[Edinburger]

thinfourth2 said:

Edinburger said:

thinfourth2 said:

Edinburger said:

Yes, I know Labour. They inherited a sorry economic situation and made it considerably worse. And then the current lot turned up and have made no significant difference so far.

So you want them to take over running Scotland

As unless the secret party pop up its going to be labour

Where did I say that I want Labour to take over running Scotland?

I didn't. You're assumning that.

Why wouldn't the SNP win the first Scottish GE? I agree that party will dissolve at some point but they've done a damn good job since taking power, in my view.

Oh, silly me, I forgot we can't have fatties in power...

Here we go again

The great expert has told us that the SNP will split after the referendum

Can't vote tory as they are still run by maggie thatcher

Lib dems have no chance

Which leaves the greens or the labour party

I'm no expert. I don't have all the answers and have never claimed to. All I have is my own views. Which happen to be different to yours. That's diversity.

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

Yes, and then I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past and I pointed out a couple of England's misdemeanours and, as expected, silence...

But it was you who brought up Churchill, and T4th who pointed out that said fat man was protecting us from said European domination. You began that whole historical thing, no-one else.

[Edinburger]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

Yes, and then I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past and I pointed out a couple of England's misdemeanours and, as expected, silence...

But it was you who brought up Churchill, and T4th who pointed out that said fat man was protecting us from said European domination. You began that whole historical thing, no-one else.

No, it was said that the SNP refused to support the war effort (or something along those lines) and I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about the past. VP gets enough stick for that. And then I pointed out those things.

Anyway, my point is proved. Let's move on.

[WhereamI]

Edinburger said:

WhereamI said:

Edinburger said:

Scotland is a country, not just a region of the UK

And because Scotland is a country, it is quite outrageous that the Conservatives governed Scotland when only one or two constituencies in the whole of Scotland voted for them.

That's the point.

Politically Scotland is a region of the UK. It has no more status in the context of the UK than Yorkshire does, or the West Midlands or Wales.

Scotland has its own legal system, its own internationally recognised border, its own educational system, its own economy and GDP, its own government, its own public services and police forces, etc.

Therefore I think most people would recognise Scotland as a country.

If it's already a country why do you need to have an independence referendum? Sounds like you are already independent.

BTW Yorkshire has it's own borders, economy, GDP, police forces, public services and so on. No we haven't indulged in our own parliament and we are happy with our status as a UK region.

[Edinburger]

WhereamI said:

Edinburger said:

WhereamI said:

Edinburger said:

Scotland is a country, not just a region of the UK

And because Scotland is a country, it is quite outrageous that the Conservatives governed Scotland when only one or two constituencies in the whole of Scotland voted for them.

That's the point.

Politically Scotland is a region of the UK. It has no more status in the context of the UK than Yorkshire does, or the West Midlands or Wales.

Scotland has its own legal system, its own internationally recognised border, its own educational system, its own economy and GDP, its own government, its own public services and police forces, etc.

Therefore I think most people would recognise Scotland as a country.

If it's already a country why do you need to have an independence referendum? Sounds like you are already independent.

BTW Yorkshire has it's own borders, economy, GDP, police forces, public services and so on. No we haven't indulged in our own parliament and we are happy with our status as a UK region.

Because we're a country and not a nation.

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

No, it was said that the SNP refused to support the war effort (or something along those lines) and I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about the past. VP gets enough stick for that. And then I pointed out those things.

Anyway, my point is proved. Let's move on.

It went
Churchill > Nazi threat > SNP support of Nazi threat > Gough fellow.

So, the whole chain started with you, talking about a chap in the past.

HTH.

[thinfourth2]

Edinburger said:

No, it was said that the SNP refused to support the war effort (or something along those lines) and I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about the past. VP gets enough stick for that. And then I pointed out those things.

Anyway, my point is proved. Let's move on.

What is your point?

As far as i'm aware Churchill wasn't wanting to lead the country with the highest rate of heart disease..........in the world

[Edinburger]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

No, it was said that the SNP refused to support the war effort (or something along those lines) and I said that I thought you lot didn't like talking about the past. VP gets enough stick for that. And then I pointed out those things.

Anyway, my point is proved. Let's move on.

It went
Churchill > Nazi threat > SNP support of Nazi threat > Gough fellow.

So, the whole chain started with you, talking about a chap in the past.

HTH.

Churchill was only mentioned because he was the first fat politician I thought of.

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

Churchill was only mentioned because he was the first fat politician I thought of.

Alright! Stop going on about the past!

[WhereamI]

Edinburger said:

Edinburger said:

Hang on a sec, I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past?

Shall we talk about ethnic cleansing carried out by the English then? Highland clearances, anyone?

Interesting that none of you responded to this point...

In what sense where the Highland clearances the fault of the English? More a case of atrocities by the Scottish nobility. Sure, the Duke of Sutherland was born in England, his wife was pretty central to it all and she was Scottish. Either way, hardly a case of English plots against the Scottish.

[mcdjl]

Edinburger said:

Edinburger said:

Hang on a sec, I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past?

Shall we talk about ethnic cleansing carried out by the English then? Highland clearances, anyone?

Interesting that none of you responded to this point...

I don't know enough of my history to respond intelligently on that one. Weren't the highland clearances undertaken by the landowners, including the Scottish ones, when they wanted to modernise their farms/make more money from the land? My understanding of it is that its not that clear cut, (like a lot of the English/Scottish wars) i thought there were Scots on both sides.

[WhereamI]

Edinburger said:

WhereamI said:

Edinburger said:

WhereamI said:

Edinburger said:

Scotland is a country, not just a region of the UK

And because Scotland is a country, it is quite outrageous that the Conservatives governed Scotland when only one or two constituencies in the whole of Scotland voted for them.

That's the point.

Politically Scotland is a region of the UK. It has no more status in the context of the UK than Yorkshire does, or the West Midlands or Wales.

Scotland has its own legal system, its own internationally recognised border, its own educational system, its own economy and GDP, its own government, its own public services and police forces, etc.

Therefore I think most people would recognise Scotland as a country.

If it's already a country why do you need to have an independence referendum? Sounds like you are already independent.

BTW Yorkshire has it's own borders, economy, GDP, police forces, public services and so on. No we haven't indulged in our own parliament and we are happy with our status as a UK region.

Because we're a country and not a nation.

Sounds to me like your country and my region are pretty much the same thing.

Edited by WhereamI on Thursday 4th October 21:17

[Caulkhead]

Edinburger said:

Caulkhead said:

Edinburger said:

Caulkhead said:

Edinburger said:

WhereamI said:

mcdjl said:

Mojocvh said:

Edinburger said:

No. I don't care whether Mr Salmond is gettinbg fat or not - you do!

A fine role model for reputedly one of the unhealthiest countries in the EU indeed.



No you REALLY don't get it, we already know.

none the less isn't attacking the man, rather than the message a bit low? Yes i question whether its a good idea/necessary for him to invite his dentist along to dinner at the tax payers expense and think thats fair enough. To question him because hes fat seems a bit like suggesting you're as devoid of ideas as he is. If we excluded everyone who was on the large side from top jobs/ politics due to their weight we'd havea lot of job openings and a lot more disability/fat claimants.

Actually if you think about it there are very few people the size of Scamond in public life, aside from Eric Pickles we wouldn't be losing many if we excluded them from politics.

I raised it mainly because I don't see him very often (he's not a big feature of life in my bit of Yorkshire) and I was surprised by how much he's aged and grown since I last saw him. Personally I'm not impressed by someone who allows that to happen to themselves, makes me wonder what they are in control of if they aren't capable of cutting back on a few calories if they find there's an extra inch on the waistband.

Winston Churchill was hardly anorexic. Perhaps it's lucky for us all the wasn't "excluded them from politics", eh?

Ah yes, world war 2 and Winston. Didn't the SNP refuse conscription during the war because they didn't want Scots helping the 'British' war effort? Another great SNP policy, siding with the Nazis. I expect Hitler would've respected the unique and vibrant culture of Scotland when he got to the border. . . . . .

I've never heard that although I'm not doubting it's true. Point is that Churchill was a fat leader.

Let's stop talking about this. Honestly, you lot have the strangest views sometimes.

We have the strangest views? You're the one ignorantly supporting a party that didn't believe Scots should fight Hitler and whose leader was sent to prison for refusing to defend Britain from the nazis. Just another case of anyone but the English I guess, but in that case the anyone was Hitler. Google Douglas Young and educate yourself a little about the roots of the party you support so vehemently.

Hang on a sec, I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past?

Shall we talk about ethnic cleansing carried out by the English then? Highland clearances, anyone?

By all means talk about if you think it's relevant. If you think the clearances have any equivalence to you currently supporting a party that quite recently prefered national socialism to fighting for Britain against Hitler, by all means bring it up.

[Caulkhead]

Edinburger said:

Caulkhead said:

Edinburger said:

thinfourth2 said:

Edinburger said:

I've never heard that although I'm not doubting it's true. Point is that Churchill was a fat leader.

Let's stop talking about this. Honestly, you lot have the strangest views sometimes.

I agree

Churchill kept us from being ruled by a completely unaccountable undemocratic body in europe

Understood.

You do realise that many Scots would argue Westminster is equally undemocratic? i.e. Scotland votes overwhelmingly against a party and, regardless of that, they gain majority and hold government.

Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale voted for the Conservative party and, regardless of that, they get an SNP government. Does that make Scotland equally undemocratic?

Eventually if you keep moving the goalposts enough, everything is undemocratic.

No, that's not an argument and you know it.

It's precisely what you suggest, but you're allowed to move the borders and I'm not apparently.

[Caulkhead]

Edinburger said:

Edinburger said:

Hang on a sec, I thought you lot didn't like talking about things that happened in the past?

Shall we talk about ethnic cleansing carried out by the English then? Highland clearances, anyone?

Interesting that none of you responded to this point...

I have, you just have to be patient, I don't have as much time to waste on this as you do!