North Korea - how serious should we take them?
Discussion
Steve_W said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
superkartracer said:
It's hard for the layman to fully understand the sheer firepower the USA have , i was reading that just 10 b2 spirit bombers could wipe out all of NK's nuclear and missile infrastructure , they could then send in a barrage of 1000+ cruise to mop-up , imagine a full-scale US attack! .
How do they get all that ordnance onto that little plane..Edited by superkartracer on Wednesday 21st June 09:25
To paraphrase Jaws "we're going to need a bigger 'plane!"
Steve_W said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
superkartracer said:
It's hard for the layman to fully understand the sheer firepower the USA have , i was reading that just 10 b2 spirit bombers could wipe out all of NK's nuclear and missile infrastructure , they could then send in a barrage of 1000+ cruise to mop-up , imagine a full-scale US attack! .
How do they get all that ordnance onto that little plane..Edited by superkartracer on Wednesday 21st June 09:25
To paraphrase Jaws "we're going to need a bigger 'plane!"
It's certainly an impressive weapon, it must have taken Russia and China months to upgrade their missiles and radar to track that.
I do wonder though: how many dams, bridges and roads could have been fixed for the same money?
This winter around 160,000 californians were in danger from the Oroville Dam bursting due to cavitation erosion of their slipway, a condition that costs about $5m to prevent, a fix they've known about since the 1983 Glen Canyon Dam near disaster.
It just shows you what $600bn+ a year of offense spending buys, but it seems to be endangering the americans more than their supposed enemies. I'm also puzzled on it's effect on ISIS driving along in their white Toyota pickups, a vehicle the US military are apparently unable to detect.
I do wonder though: how many dams, bridges and roads could have been fixed for the same money?
This winter around 160,000 californians were in danger from the Oroville Dam bursting due to cavitation erosion of their slipway, a condition that costs about $5m to prevent, a fix they've known about since the 1983 Glen Canyon Dam near disaster.
It just shows you what $600bn+ a year of offense spending buys, but it seems to be endangering the americans more than their supposed enemies. I'm also puzzled on it's effect on ISIS driving along in their white Toyota pickups, a vehicle the US military are apparently unable to detect.
Edited by Globs on Saturday 24th June 13:12
mikal83 said:
Steve_W said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
superkartracer said:
It's hard for the layman to fully understand the sheer firepower the USA have , i was reading that just 10 b2 spirit bombers could wipe out all of NK's nuclear and missile infrastructure , they could then send in a barrage of 1000+ cruise to mop-up , imagine a full-scale US attack! .
How do they get all that ordnance onto that little plane..Edited by superkartracer on Wednesday 21st June 09:25
To paraphrase Jaws "we're going to need a bigger 'plane!"
Two more people who'll be looking over their shoulders next time they're at the airport....
http://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-in-threat-to...
http://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-in-threat-to...
mybrainhurts said:
Learnt something from a radio programme recently.
I always thought the Kim dynasty was promoted by China, but it seems the USSR set it up.
it was. Following the UN being unable to setup a democratic election for the whole of Korea, as the USSR vetoed it, two young americans decided on the 38th division. USSR agreed, and so it was.I always thought the Kim dynasty was promoted by China, but it seems the USSR set it up.
Kim il sung was elected leader of the north, and Rhee leader of the south. Both were pretty horrific.
bristolracer said:
FN2TypeR said:
But y'know, they're on "our" side so that's OK
History is full of those,we never seem to learn.
k the west has enacted on the far east. good work us 
skyrover said:
In interesting graph showing public attitudes towards US presence in the Asia pacific region.
From experience, that is a pretty meaningless graph.Of the countries on that list I have lived in(Japan+SK), I would say most people are extremely unlikely to offer their honest opinion, even in confidence or anonymity.
It is not the same culture over there where people will tell you their actual beliefs behind closed doors. You have to be very close friends before you get complete disclosure.
Aussies and Yanks however will offer their opinions without even being prompted!
mybrainhurts said:
Learnt something from a radio programme recently.
I always thought the Kim dynasty was promoted by China, but it seems the USSR set it up.
Russia and china back NK. Different ways, this is probably why the usa hasn't gone iraq on there ass, as it would in effect most likely trigger another world war.I always thought the Kim dynasty was promoted by China, but it seems the USSR set it up.
He's the first person to grasp the nettle, and he's right.
NK just sent back a US citizen as a cabbage for trying to nick a poster. If that doesn't tell you something about what we are dealing with here, I don't know what will.
The US will no doubt be sending two or three battlegroups to the area in the not too distant future. Even if NK were to agree to stop developing it's nuclear warheads, only a complete fool would believe them. And you'd be a bigger fool if you thought they'd allow international inspectors in to verify it.
Something has to be done NOW - or you accept an even more unstable future with a west-hating nuclear capable NK that has a madman at the helm. He probably wouldn't think twice about selling some of his wares to terrorist groups to do his dirty work for him, either.
One other thing that will emerge from all this is who's gonna creep out the undergrowth and stand side by side with fatty and if I know China like I think I know China - it'll be China.
NK just sent back a US citizen as a cabbage for trying to nick a poster. If that doesn't tell you something about what we are dealing with here, I don't know what will.
The US will no doubt be sending two or three battlegroups to the area in the not too distant future. Even if NK were to agree to stop developing it's nuclear warheads, only a complete fool would believe them. And you'd be a bigger fool if you thought they'd allow international inspectors in to verify it.
Something has to be done NOW - or you accept an even more unstable future with a west-hating nuclear capable NK that has a madman at the helm. He probably wouldn't think twice about selling some of his wares to terrorist groups to do his dirty work for him, either.
One other thing that will emerge from all this is who's gonna creep out the undergrowth and stand side by side with fatty and if I know China like I think I know China - it'll be China.
I would expect South Korea to be more of the blocker to anything involving invasion and removal of the North Korean dictatorship. As a sudden influx of 25 million people and a crippled country into a unified Korea would probably send their own economy into meltdown. South Korea needs North Korea as a separate country.
China needs North Korea as a separate country as it's own diplomatic bargaining chip with the US. However a unified and economically weakened Korea would be an opportunity for China or Japan to take advantage in the region. Perhaps China will cash in it's chip, but could they risk their hated Japanese rivals getting the upper hand?
Then throw in the fact the USA owes China over 1 trillion dollars, the largest US debt (Japan is bigger but Japan in return owe the US $800 billion), that's a big economic bargaining tool too.
China needs North Korea as a separate country as it's own diplomatic bargaining chip with the US. However a unified and economically weakened Korea would be an opportunity for China or Japan to take advantage in the region. Perhaps China will cash in it's chip, but could they risk their hated Japanese rivals getting the upper hand?
Then throw in the fact the USA owes China over 1 trillion dollars, the largest US debt (Japan is bigger but Japan in return owe the US $800 billion), that's a big economic bargaining tool too.
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Saturday 1st July 10:51
Cobnapint said:
He's the first person to grasp the nettle, and he's right.
NK just sent back a US citizen as a cabbage for trying to nick a poster..
He's wrong, sorry.NK just sent back a US citizen as a cabbage for trying to nick a poster..
How many people did the US deliberately kill in Waco?
What about Philando Castile who was shot for a faulty stop light?
Why should we kill millions for the sake of one idiot? He's a Darwin Award candidate, not a martyr. So he's an american idiot, would you still care if he was indian or thai?
You have a serious gung-ho mentality issue with regards to war: fought by other people - not going to fight in Korea yourself are you? This attitude has been tried in the middle east for years now and has killed nearly 2 million people, destroyed places hundreds and sometimes thousands of years old and dusted the place with lethal depleted uranium that will now be there forever.
So now you want another war, possibly nuclear, on China's doorstep just because you think Kim is a 'bad man'? What propaganda channel are you plugged into - the BBC? Sky?
Seriously - NK's nukes are the only reason it's not been invaded, it's a deterrent against US aggression. What you you think Kim and his generals think when we smashed up Afghanistan? Then Iraq? Then Libya? Then Syria?
What do you think he feels when the US, Saudi and Israel all threaten Iran with annilhilation?
I'll tell you how he feels, he feels scared and his countrymen feel motivated to improve their deterrent.
Who do you think caused Russia to re-arm and revitalise their military? It wasn't Harry Potter, it was the US military threat.
Only a retard or a sadomasochist would want another war. All NK want is to be left alone, circling them with ships and threats in the vain hope that they'll strike first is a fools way, and unless you particularly crave (more) nuclear fallout for you and your friends and family to ingest I suggest you stop crying for war too.
There's no way the whole population of NK would head south for freedom.
1.2 million are in the armed forces with nearly 8 million in reserve. They'd stay and fight to the last.
Those living in squalor in the countryside and mountainous regions would just carry on as if nothing had happened.
Most of the rest of the population is either brainwashed to fight or too terrified not to fight, so will stay the course for their dear leader (and their own backsides).
I'd be surprised if anymore than half a million were either willing or had the actual means to make a break for it.
1.2 million are in the armed forces with nearly 8 million in reserve. They'd stay and fight to the last.
Those living in squalor in the countryside and mountainous regions would just carry on as if nothing had happened.
Most of the rest of the population is either brainwashed to fight or too terrified not to fight, so will stay the course for their dear leader (and their own backsides).
I'd be surprised if anymore than half a million were either willing or had the actual means to make a break for it.
Globs said:
Cobnapint said:
He's the first person to grasp the nettle, and he's right.
NK just sent back a US citizen as a cabbage for trying to nick a poster..
He's wrong, sorry.NK just sent back a US citizen as a cabbage for trying to nick a poster..
How many people did the US deliberately kill in Waco?
What about Philando Castile who was shot for a faulty stop light?
Why should we kill millions for the sake of one idiot? He's a Darwin Award candidate, not a martyr. So he's an american idiot, would you still care if he was indian or thai?
You have a serious gung-ho mentality issue with regards to war: fought by other people - not going to fight in Korea yourself are you? This attitude has been tried in the middle east for years now and has killed nearly 2 million people, destroyed places hundreds and sometimes thousands of years old and dusted the place with lethal depleted uranium that will now be there forever.
So now you want another war, possibly nuclear, on China's doorstep just because you think Kim is a 'bad man'? What propaganda channel are you plugged into - the BBC? Sky?
Seriously - NK's nukes are the only reason it's not been invaded, it's a deterrent against US aggression. What you you think Kim and his generals think when we smashed up Afghanistan? Then Iraq? Then Libya? Then Syria?
What do you think he feels when the US, Saudi and Israel all threaten Iran with annilhilation?
I'll tell you how he feels, he feels scared and his countrymen feel motivated to improve their deterrent.
Who do you think caused Russia to re-arm and revitalise their military? It wasn't Harry Potter, it was the US military threat.
Only a retard or a sadomasochist would want another war. All NK want is to be left alone, circling them with ships and threats in the vain hope that they'll strike first is a fools way, and unless you particularly crave (more) nuclear fallout for you and your friends and family to ingest I suggest you stop crying for war too.
As said before, NK could choose to act a bit more 'normal' but chooses not to. It's been there for a long time - and apart from the annual military exercise it carries out with SK, the US makes no actual threats in their direction at all and hasn't invaded.
It is NK that is upping the ante, defying UN resolutions, murdering innocent people in airport departure lounges and at home, firing test missiles towards Japan, making threats to the US, announcing a death warrant for SK's former president, etc, etc.
Is this acceptable behavior? You clearly think so.
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