What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.
Discussion
otolith said:
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. If you would like to use your vote to exert political pressure to be given a referendum on the EU, though, it is the only option you have.
If you're suggesting I or the majority of the electorate would place membership of the EU above domestic issues, you'd almost certainly be wrong.10 Pence Short said:
If you're suggesting I or the majority of the electorate would place membership of the EU above domestic issues, you'd almost certainly be wrong.
In which case what is essentially a single issue party concerned with EU membership is not for you. It's also unlikely to secure the support of the majority of the electorate, but then nor is any other party. That has not happened since 1931.Guam said:
Really you are stretching now, so you are fine with stating any old crap before hand and then destroying a nations economy as long as you have " a published policy" months before you need to publish it?
Small wonder the country is f
ked if your view is the predominant one in Political life!
I am 'stretching'? Really?Small wonder the country is f
ked if your view is the predominant one in Political life!I am suggesting that before I sell my vote to a candidate, I expect them to tell me what they want to deliver in the 5 years they will be representing me.
I expect that.
This is 'stretching'?
Jollyclub said:
Derek Smith said:
farage wants us to follow the examples of other, similar sized, European countries but outside the EU and therefore outside its influence. For examples:
Iceland;
Norway.
In which regard are either Iceland or Norway similar in size to the UK? Iceland;
Norway.
Iceland's per capita GDP is close, but not really comaparable since it only has a population of 300k.
The point I was making, if obscurely evidently, is that what good for 350,000 Icelandics - although in truth not very good - might well not be good for 65 million.
Figures from memory, not meaning to be piccy.
HonestIago said:
FredClogs said:
Tax rich people less, spend more on the armed forces (they must know somethnig we don't), repeal the smoking ban, repeal the hunting ban, stop immigration by employing the exact same immigration criteria as the current government, make poor people poorer (if you can't be arsed to be rich then I'm afraid they have no sympathy) and I think they want to withdraw our membership of the EU..
-Taxing the rich less would be beneficial to the nation's coffers as it would reduce tax avoidanceFWIW - most people care not for the precise figures and pragmatism of taxation policy, most people want to see the wealthy pay more - and why not.
HonestIago said:
-Making smoking at the discretion of pub/restaurant owners seems perfectly reasonable to any non-fascist
Smoking ban was about protecting people in their place of work, if that's fascism then grow me a mustache and goose step me to the back of the queue for the brown shirts. I suspect your too young to remember when smoking was common place in cinemas, buses and trains, it minged I tell thee.HonestIago said:
-The hunting ban was nothing but political point-scoring (what are we to do about halal slaughter?)
Showing your true colours there mate, unable to debate the needless and cruel slaughter without taking a pop at the "immigrant" culture, fwiw it's right they should ban all cruel treatment and slaughter.HonestIago said:
-Make the poor poorer: Please explain? By scrapping NI, increasing the personal allowance and making it transferable, and reducing green subsidies on energy bills? By cutting welfare dependence and making work pay? By reducing competition in low-skilled labour markets?
Exactly by doing all of that.10 Pence Short said:
Guam said:
Now now stop being cute, the point is easy to detect, Labour had published costed policies lol, then they bankrupted the country.
Novel having to spell out something so obvious!
That a party who did have policies either had bad ones or failed to implement them does not logically take you to policies per se being a bad thing.Novel having to spell out something so obvious!
If I want someone to represent me for 5 years, I would like an opportunity to see what they plan for and would expect to deliver before I give them my vote. Without that, I may well be voting for someone who doesn't represent my views at all. How would I know?
Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
Guam said:
And yet you focus only on UKIP, pull the other one 10PS!
At least I have slagged them all off equally in the past, and I have yet to vote for UKIP.
I have criticised the current government and Labour consistently throughout. It doesn't suit you to see it, and conversations about the other parties are curious by their absence in the presence of much heat (and little light) regards UKIP.At least I have slagged them all off equally in the past, and I have yet to vote for UKIP.
In NPE UKIP enjoy a disproportionate amount of discussion compared to the outside world.
For what it's worth, I almost certainly won't be voting Labour, as their ideals are too far from my own. I would like to vote Conservative but don't believe in David Cameron or other senoor figures in their attitude towards the role of the State and, at present, I don't believe UKIP have any credible policies to make them worthy of running the country and a vote purely on the EU would be a wasted one, as I see it. I would like a vote on the EU though.
That leaves the Liberals, who are in some ways a good counter-balance to the Tories and in others have no prospects and probably no leader after the next election, and whatever local independent chooses to stand.
So no, I do not need to pull another one, and I do not see the value in trying to hide the deficiencies in one party with those of another.
Mark Benson said:
You have no idea what UKIP might be about and whether they represent your views?
Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
All I know at present is that they don't like the EU or immigrants and align themselves with some rather nasty people in the EU.Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
These are things I know about and dislike.
Guam said:
Breadvan72 said:
Getragdogleg said:
Breadvan72 said:
AJS- said:
10PS
If he's just after the money, why would he care about directing policy? Heck, join the Lib Dems if you have to. They all get the same expenses, right?
Farage has zero chance of wielding power and must be shrewd enough to know that. Being UKIP (because it is in essence a one man band) gives him money and public profile in return for almost no work. Think of the pub bore who now gets to be a well paid professional pub bore. Sweet deal!If he's just after the money, why would he care about directing policy? Heck, join the Lib Dems if you have to. They all get the same expenses, right?
10 Pence Short said:
Mark Benson said:
You have no idea what UKIP might be about and whether they represent your views?
Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
All I know at present is that they don't like the EU or immigrants and align themselves with some rather nasty people in the EU.Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
These are things I know about and dislike.
10 Pence Short said:
I have criticised the current government and Labour consistently throughout. It doesn't suit you to see it, and conversations about the other parties are curious by their absence in the presence of much heat (and little light) regards UKIP.
In NPE UKIP enjoy a disproportionate amount of discussion compared to the outside world.
Maybe that's because someone like Breadvan starts a thread calling them fascists every time some idiot gets lost in a boat off the coast of Italy.In NPE UKIP enjoy a disproportionate amount of discussion compared to the outside world.
10 Pence Short said:
I am suggesting that before I sell my vote to a candidate, I expect them to tell me what they want to deliver in the 5 years they will be representing me.
If you are bothered about that, and it's a perfectly reasonable position, you would probably be better served by looking at the candidates and voting for the individual who seems likely to be the best constituency MP than by looking at the colour of their ties.steveT350C said:
10 Pence Short said:
Mark Benson said:
You have no idea what UKIP might be about and whether they represent your views?
Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
All I know at present is that they don't like the EU or immigrants and align themselves with some rather nasty people in the EU.Really? None at all?
You seem quite keen to dislike them based on this lack of knowledge. Isn't that the very definition of prejudice?
These are things I know about and dislike.
As I said earlier, I don't like the rhetoric used by UKIP on immigration, but I understand that they don't actually dislike immigrants.
s2art said:
Breadvan72 said:
My work revolves to a large extent around legislation and regulations. Most of it has nothing to do with the EU, and most of it has nothing to do with Parliament. It's mostly prepared by departmental (UK) civil servants, and often badly (but that's another debate).
We are very badly misgoverned (party in power regardless), but the misgovernment happens mainly in Whitehall and Downing Street, not in Brussels, Luxembourg, or Strasbourg.
'Mats Persson, director of the think-tank Open Europe, said: “This study reveals that putting a number on the percentage of UK laws coming from the EU is almost impossible. But, in any case, it is far more important to measure the actual impact that EU laws have on the economy and individuals on a day-to-day basis. We are very badly misgoverned (party in power regardless), but the misgovernment happens mainly in Whitehall and Downing Street, not in Brussels, Luxembourg, or Strasbourg.
“Our research, based on the Government’s own figures, shows that in 2009, 59 percent of the regulatory costs facing individuals, businesses and the public sector in the UK stemmed from EU legislation. This is a far more useful measure than merely counting individual laws without any sense of their relative importance – and it shows that the EU now has a massive impact on the UK.”
That was a few years ago. Since then the EU has taken over regulation of banks and financial services. So it will be higher now.
So I call BS BV, even the House of Commons believes that the EU has over 50% control of our law.
One of the worst things about the EU is the undue regulatory costs that many of its measures impose, but all modern Governments love regulation, and I doubt that the burden would be reduced very much if the UK leaves the EU. A bit, maybe, and that may be a reason for leaving, but it is foolish to imagine that if all the EU rules vanish overnight they will not be replaced, for the most part, with similar stiff home grown. As noted above, it could even be worse: we could end up like Norway - complying with the rules, paying a big subscription, and not having any real access even to the faulty and flawed deliberative processes of the law making bodies.
Guam said:
HAHAHAHAH
Seriously, The Kipper haters really should not have opened this can of worms.
I am sure many on PH will appreciate this lot who are tory Bedfellows in the ecr
Primarily a Protestant party, the CU bases its policies on the Bible, and takes the theological principles of charity and stewardship as bases for its support for public expenditure and environmentalism. The party seeks for government to uphold Christian morality, but supports freedom of religion under the doctrine of sphere sovereignty. The party is moderately Eurosceptic; it sits with the ECR in the European Parliament. It is a member.
Apparently BV and the other Kipper haters must belong to the "Black Stocking brigade"
and there was me thinking they had "liberal outlooks" !
Black stockings? Nope, Papist (very, very lapsed). Crap religion, but cool threads and good songs. CU? Pretty feeble stuff, Guam. The CU hang out with the Tories. Let them. I ain't a Tory. Seriously, The Kipper haters really should not have opened this can of worms.
I am sure many on PH will appreciate this lot who are tory Bedfellows in the ecr
Primarily a Protestant party, the CU bases its policies on the Bible, and takes the theological principles of charity and stewardship as bases for its support for public expenditure and environmentalism. The party seeks for government to uphold Christian morality, but supports freedom of religion under the doctrine of sphere sovereignty. The party is moderately Eurosceptic; it sits with the ECR in the European Parliament. It is a member.
Apparently BV and the other Kipper haters must belong to the "Black Stocking brigade"
and there was me thinking they had "liberal outlooks" !
don4l said:
Breadvan72 said:
A lot of the Eurosceptics complain of the EU doing things that they didn't think that it would do when they voted back in the 1970s, but they must have failed to read the documents at the time - all of the free movement stuff was on the cards from the word go.
We were asked about free movement between economically similar countries. That wasn't a problem.The problem arises when you give free access to very poor countries. We were not told that Iror Curtain countries were going to be joining.
league67 said:
AshVX220 said:
Indeed.
I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.
Jealousy of the proletariat is ugly. Are you BibleBeltJim's other brain cell? If not you should be. I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.
You think I'm jealous of BV? Of all the people on this forum with amazing collection of fantastic motors, BV is not one I'd be jealous of in any way, shape or form.
Sorry BV, I'm sure you have an amazing lifestyle compared to me etc, etc. It's just not for me. I'm far too common.
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