Priti Patel

[freakybacon]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/11/23/priti-pat...

Brendan O'Neill wades in...

[Tuna]

bhstewie said:

Tuna said:

Seriously Stewie, you're looking less and less rational these days. What are you on about?

I'm happy for anyone reading to form their own view on that.

The report wasn't written by a Civil Servant.

He wouldn't be very independent if he was still in the Civil Service.

If Boris didn't trust him to be impartial he shouldn't have appointed him.

The report was on Patel's behaviour. The incidental judgements on the civil service were not the reason for choosing or not choosing the person who carried out the report. It might be argued that someone with experience of the civil service, and ability to discuss the behaviour of Patel within that environment would be beneficial for the report without prejudicing it.

That it happens to have shone light on the wider behaviour of the Department is interesting.

[hidetheelephants]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, yes it is; along with management studies as a degree rather than one course within a degree it ranks alongside all the other non-subjects that have ended up as degrees since some liar said "education, education, education" when they really meant "sausages, sausages, sausages".

[rdjohn]

Digga said:

I'm broadly in agreement here.

How about Rutnam though? Given there's rarely smoke without fire, reports suggest he was known as "Dr No" for his persistently negative approach to ministerial ideas, and also that he did not appear to react to strong female ministers - e.g. Rudd and Patel - well, but took a very different ap proach with Javid.

I think that perhaps another element to the Home Office problem is the difficulty recruiting quality personnel in London when they are competing with the wealthy Financial Services sector.

This tends to lead to people being promoted to their level of incompetence. Who. In their right. mind would commute for 2-hours for a middle-ranking position, in a failing Department.

So you end up with a disenchanted labour force who are there for ideological reasons, generous holidays, flexible working, or, a lucky promotion into dead-man’s shoes.

It is not a good recipe.

[bitchstewie]

Tuna said:

The report was on Patel's behaviour. The incidental judgements on the civil service were not the reason for choosing or not choosing the person who carried out the report. It might be argued that someone with experience of the civil service, and ability to discuss the behaviour of Patel within that environment would be beneficial for the report without prejudicing it.

That it happens to have shone light on the wider behaviour of the Department is interesting.

Not that much of a light.

Have you found the bits in the report that back up what you think it said about Rutnam?

Don't think you will because it doesn't.

Rutnam might be appalling at his (former) job.

But the report doesn't say that.

[rdjohn]

bhstewie said:

Not that much of a light.

Have you found the bits in the report that back up what you think it said about Rutnam?

Don't think you will because it doesn't.

Rutnam might be appalling at his (former) job.

But the report doesn't say that.

Perhaps that is why Boris asked the former Civil Servant to be more open minded.

[markyb_lcy]

rdjohn said:

Perhaps that is why Boris asked the former Civil Servant to be more open minded.

“Open minded”? That’s a strange way to characterise asking for the results of a seemingly independent investigation to be “palatable”.

[markyb_lcy]

freakybacon said:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/11/23/priti-pat...

Brendan O'Neill wades in...

What a tosser

article said:

the real scandal is that fiftysomething adults are using the word ‘bullying’ to describe being put under pressure in the workplace

My father was a victim of workplace bullying and eventually was pushed into early retirement. He’s not a man that ever experienced anything like it in his career previously. He was very hard working and loyal but not afraid to speak his mind. That said, he isn’t someone who was particularly rebellious.

He was working at a university in estates and building management. His long-time boss retired and a new guy came in. This guy wanted to change things up quite significantly and pushed a few people out. My dad was seeing out his years to retirement.

The new boss, along with his appointed underlings whom he has worked with before, sidelined my dad, undermined him to his peers and engaged in bullying tactics ... shouting, swearing, threatening behaviour etc.

I can honestly say the change in my dad was enormous. He lost a lot of his mojo and became depressed. Eventually he began to take anti depressants, something I could never imagine my dad doing.

The university Hr dept were woefully unprepared for dealing with such a situation. In the end, they and him negotiated an early retirement with most of the final salary pension he was seeing out his years for. Shortly afterwards he had a heart attack for which he attributes to cause to be, at least in part, workplace stress and depression.

Now I hope people will just take this at face value and not question me over it, but afaik bullying of over 50s in the workplace is alive and well and I know because it has affected my family.

[bitchstewie]

markyb_lcy said:

My father was a victim of workplace bullying and eventually was pushed into early retirement. He’s not a man that ever experienced anything like it in his career previously. He was very hard working and loyal but not afraid to speak his mind. That said, he isn’t someone who was particularly rebellious.

He was working at a university in estates and building management. His long-time boss retired and a new guy came in. This guy wanted to change things up quite significantly and pushed a few people out. My dad was seeing out his years to retirement.

The new boss, along with his appointed underlings whom he has worked with before, sidelined my dad, undermined him to his peers and engaged in bullying tactics ... shouting, swearing, threatening behaviour etc.

I can honestly say the change in my dad was enormous. He lost a lot of his mojo and became depressed. Eventually he began to take anti depressants, something I could never imagine my dad doing.

The university Hr dept were woefully unprepared for dealing with such a situation. In the end, they and him negotiated an early retirement with most of the final salary pension he was seeing out his years for. Shortly afterwards he had a heart attack for which he attributes to cause to be, at least in part, workplace stress and depression.

Now I hope people will just take this at face value and not question me over it, but afaik bullying of over 50s in the workplace is alive and well and I know because it has affected my family.

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

[markyb_lcy]

bhstewie said:

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

He was happily enjoying his retirement with my mum living in a camper travelling around Europe, until covid put paid to that. Thankfully they hadn’t sold their house!

Thanks for your kind words.

[Electro1980]

Tuna said:

Electro1980 said:

Tuna said:

bhstewie said:

If he was shown to have bullied his junior staff then same as Patel there's no place for that kind of thing in the senior leadership of a modern organisation.

What if he was shown to consistently ignore the requests of his boss, to withhold information from them and to make decisions that went directly against theirs? Is there place for that? That appears to be what the report is saying, and suggests why he resigned before it was produced.

She’s not his boss. That’s not how the civil service works. Civil servants work with ministers, not for them.

So you think it's OK for him to be obstructive and withhold information at will?

That’s not what I said, but the dynamic between manager and employee is very different. To talk about her being his boss is to misrepresent what happened.

[amusingduck]

markyb_lcy said:

He was happily enjoying his retirement with my mum living in a camper travelling around Europe, until covid put paid to that. Thankfully they hadn’t sold their house!

I initially misunderstood "until covid put paid to that". I'm glad to be mistaken! I hope, covid excepted, the rest of his retirement is enjoyable

[bitchstewie]

markyb_lcy said:

He was happily enjoying his retirement with my mum living in a camper travelling around Europe, until covid put paid to that. Thankfully they hadn’t sold their house!

Thanks for your kind words.

I had to read that twice.

Best of luck to him and hopefully he's having a better time than the piece of st that put him through it

[Red 4]

bhstewie said:

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

A colleague committed suicide due to workplace bullying.

The bullying was committed by senior management. This is how it can end.

I won't go into the details on here but I also experienced some of the same treatment.

This was in the police.

[markyb_lcy]

bhstewie said:

markyb_lcy said:

He was happily enjoying his retirement with my mum living in a camper travelling around Europe, until covid put paid to that. Thankfully they hadn’t sold their house!

Thanks for your kind words.

I had to read that twice.

Best of luck to him and hopefully he's having a better time than the piece of st that put him through it

Ha. Whoops. Having read this bit back I can see how it suggested something much worse!

Because they can’t use camper 1 which they already owned, he’s busy making camper 2 out of a normal van. Said he needed a project to keep him busy.

We are all hoping they can get back out on the road (in the one they decide to keep) next summer / autumn.

[dundarach]

Red 4 said:

bhstewie said:

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

A colleague committed suicide due to workplace bullying.

The bullying was committed by senior management. This is how it can end.

I won't go into the details on here but I also experienced some of the same treatment.

This was in the police.

same, saw him on the Sunday, monday, dog walker found him

[markyb_lcy]

Red 4 said:

bhstewie said:

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

A colleague committed suicide due to workplace bullying.

The bullying was committed by senior management. This is how it can end.

I won't go into the details on here but I also experienced some of the same treatment.

This was in the police.

Nowhere is immune to these characters and their behaviour. It needs calling out and stamping out wherever it occurs.

As long as it is tolerated and enabled, it will occur.

[Red 4]

dundarach said:

Red 4 said:

bhstewie said:

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

A colleague committed suicide due to workplace bullying.

The bullying was committed by senior management. This is how it can end.

I won't go into the details on here but I also experienced some of the same treatment.

This was in the police.

same, saw him on the Sunday, monday, dog walker found him

Sorry to hear that.

The main perpetrator of the bullying I refer to was further promoted after this and held very senior rank.
The job were keen to bury this sorry tale.

He's retired now but when that fker dies I'll go and dance a jig on the tt's grave.

It's a long story, not to be repeated on here. Once again, Sorry about your colleague.

Edited by Red 4 on Wednesday 25th November 19:47

[Red 4]

markyb_lcy said:

Red 4 said:

bhstewie said:

Christ

I mean you read about these things but there's something a bit raw when it's laid out right in front of you like that.

Hope your dad has made a recovery and I hope people reading that reflect a bit.

A colleague committed suicide due to workplace bullying.

The bullying was committed by senior management. This is how it can end.

I won't go into the details on here but I also experienced some of the same treatment.

This was in the police.

Nowhere is immune to these characters and their behaviour. It needs calling out and stamping out wherever it occurs.

As long as it is tolerated and enabled, it will occur.

I hear what you're saying Mark but unfortunately dealing with stuff like this isn't always straightforward.

When the bullying is committed by senior ranks (who stick together) you have a problem.

[bitchstewie]

Red 4 said:

I hear what you're saying Mark but unfortunately dealing with stuff like this isn't always straightforward.

When the bullying is committed by senior ranks (who stick together) you have a problem.

"I make no apology for standing by a home secretary who is getting on with delivering the people’s priorities"

Indeed.