How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)

[don'tbesilly]

Ghibli said:

It's you and other posters that keep bringing it up.

It keeps you happy and avoiding discussing the Brexit negotiations;)

10.02 am this morning.
Who brought the chairs up?

Ghibli said:

What about the posts that involve children in long and short trousers. Do they make the thread worth reading? How about the AJD/slasher mx5 ghibli posts. How about Next Bernie chairs.

They appear to be popular for vocal PH leave voters.

[Helicopter123]

More grim news coming out of the financial services sector.

Standard Chartered this time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45238457

Very worrying.

[anonymous-user]

don'tbesilly said:

Ghibli said:

It's you and other posters that keep bringing it up.

It keeps you happy and avoiding discussing the Brexit negotiations;)

10.02 am this morning.
Who brought the chairs up?

Ghibli said:

What about the posts that involve children in long and short trousers. Do they make the thread worth reading? How about the AJD/slasher mx5 ghibli posts. How about Next Bernie chairs.

They appear to be popular for vocal PH leave voters.

Like I say, they are very popular with Vocal PH leave voters.

[sidicks]

Helicopter123 said:

More grim news coming out of the financial services sector.

Standard Chartered this time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45238457

Very worrying.

Is this another ocassion where you provide a link on a subject you don’t understand, without reading the article?

Article said:

Europe and Americas boss Tracy Clarke says the relatively small size of the bank in the EU market means it would not "be moving hundreds of people".

[tumble dryer]

pgh said:

Gilbertron said:

I believe sale price would refer to the price at which items, or services, can be exchanged for money.

For example a multi pack of two fingered KitKat's are available from Tesco at a sale price of £1.99

True enough, however, in this case, I was indeed under the impression that the chairs were in a 'Sale'. If Ghibli says that I am mistaken then so be it. The presence of some sort of price reduction on the chairs was of course totally immaterial, but Ghibli has chosen to focus on that to the exclusion of anything else.

As daft as a discussion about chairs is, there's an interesting snippet of his posting style to be seen here though; ignore the majority of the content, especially if non-contestable, find a tiny item, focus on that, Finally, never answer a question.

Yes They have a word for it.

Troll

[don'tbesilly]

Ghibli said:

don'tbesilly said:

Ghibli said:

It's you and other posters that keep bringing it up.

It keeps you happy and avoiding discussing the Brexit negotiations;)

10.02 am this morning.
Who brought the chairs up?

Ghibli said:

What about the posts that involve children in long and short trousers. Do they make the thread worth reading? How about the AJD/slasher mx5 ghibli posts. How about Next Bernie chairs.

They appear to be popular for vocal PH leave voters.

Like I say, they are very popular with Vocal PH leave voters.

Only when it's you who keeps bringing up a subject that you said you didn't, despite the evidence to the contrary that everyone can now see.

[djc206]

sidicks said:

Helicopter123 said:

I think, in a democracy, we shouldn't be afraid to ask the people what they wish as clearly the negotiations have not gone as anticipated. A second and definitive referendum once the terms of Brexit are known would be the democratic option.

Feel,free to try and manipulate the definition if democracy to suit your personal prejudices.

In the real world however, the terms of the referendum were quite clear.

Sorry you’re still having trouble dealing with the fact that the majority don't share your view and so your side lost...

You appear to have redefined democracy off the back of the ‘once in a generation’ line. Democracy is doing what the people want and if it were to appear they had changed their minds (which doesn’t seem to be the case at the moment) then in a proper democracy you would offer them the opportunity to do so or reaffirm their previous position. I’m not a big fan of direct democracy, it’s cumbersome, time consuming, expensive and subject to no sanity testing so I don’t think there should be a second ref but to argue that is undemocratic is an absolute non starter.

[alfie2244]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Ghibli said:

alfie2244 said:

Not forgetting his valuable and knowledgeable inputs of how a hospital runs.

Nope it's the doctors that have that knowledge. You know, the ones you don't believe.

Ahhhh, but which doctors know better than the other doctors ?

You want carnage ?... get doctors to decide on budgets, good luck.

After 40yrs in the NHS I can safely say MrsA doesn't think Drs are the best people to run a hospital...even if they may think they are.

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 19th August 23:05

[anonymous-user]

alfie2244 said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Ghibli said:

alfie2244 said:

Not forgetting his valuable and knowledgeable inputs of how a hospital runs.

Nope it's the doctors that have that knowledge. You know, the ones you don't believe.

Ahhhh, but which doctors know better than the other doctors ?

You want carnage ?... get doctors to decide on budgets, good luck.

After 40yrs in the NHS I can safely say MrsA doesn't think Drs are the best people to run a hospital...even if they may think they are.

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 19th August 23:05

Are you saying that Mrs A is saying that a no deal Brexit will be good for the NHS.

[alfie2244]

Ghibli said:

alfie2244 said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Ghibli said:

alfie2244 said:

Not forgetting his valuable and knowledgeable inputs of how a hospital runs.

Nope it's the doctors that have that knowledge. You know, the ones you don't believe.

Ahhhh, but which doctors know better than the other doctors ?

You want carnage ?... get doctors to decide on budgets, good luck.

After 40yrs in the NHS I can safely say MrsA doesn't think Drs are the best people to run a hospital...even if they may think they are.

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 19th August 23:05

Are you saying that Mrs A is saying that a no deal Brexit will be good for the NHS.

What I said is what I wrote...please feel free to ask your mum what that means.

[The Dangerous Elk]

[Jockman]

djc206 said:

sidicks said:

Helicopter123 said:

I think, in a democracy, we shouldn't be afraid to ask the people what they wish as clearly the negotiations have not gone as anticipated. A second and definitive referendum once the terms of Brexit are known would be the democratic option.

Feel,free to try and manipulate the definition if democracy to suit your personal prejudices.

In the real world however, the terms of the referendum were quite clear.

Sorry you’re still having trouble dealing with the fact that the majority don't share your view and so your side lost...

You appear to have redefined democracy off the back of the ‘once in a generation’ line. Democracy is doing what the people want and if it were to appear they had changed their minds (which doesn’t seem to be the case at the moment) then in a proper democracy you would offer them the opportunity to do so or reaffirm their previous position. I’m not a big fan of direct democracy, it’s cumbersome, time consuming, expensive and subject to no sanity testing so I don’t think there should be a second ref but to argue that is undemocratic is an absolute non starter.

People also voted in a GE since the referendum and overwhelmingly rejected the party that advocated a second referendum.

[anonymous-user]

alfie2244 said:

What I said is what I wrote...please feel free to ask your mum what that means.

What does Mrs A think will happen to the NHS with a no deal Brexit.

Does she agree with the doctors or does she have a better understanding than them.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 19th August 23:17

[alfie2244]

Ghibli said:

alfie2244 said:

What I said is what I wrote...please feel free to ask your mum what that means.

What does Mrs A think will happen to the NHS with a no deal Brexit.

No idea.....she's too busy trying to sort out far more important issues for which she is in great demand despite retiring 5 yrs ago.

[djc206]

Jockman said:

People also voted in a GE since the referendum and overwhelmingly rejected the party that advocated a second referendum.

The GE was not fought over one issue. You could just as easily argue that we rejected the party on the basis that their leader was a homophobe or that we didn’t fancy a rise in income tax rates.

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about a second referendum. That doesn’t make it a good idea or necessary but the argument that it’s undemocratic is frankly ridiculous.

Democracy cannot be undemocratic no matter how undesirable it may be.

[anonymous-user]

alfie2244 said:

No idea.....she's too busy trying to sort out far more important issues for which she is in great demand despite retiring 5 yrs ago.

That's a shame, she could have explained what will happen in a no deal situation.

[Tuna]

djc206 said:

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about a second referendum. That doesn’t make it a good idea or necessary but the argument that it’s undemocratic is frankly ridiculous.

Democracy cannot be undemocratic no matter how undesirable it may be.

There's probably something to be said about 'practical democracy'. If your definition of democracy is to ask 'the people' whenever their will might have changed, then we'd add vote buttons to Twitter and have a daily referendum on whatever was in the news. Anyone with a passing experience of Twitter will know what the result of that would be.

One of the points of our democratic system is that 'the people' may chose the direction, and act as a brake for extremist views, but we have representatives to implement their will. Those representatives are meant to (a) understand the situation and communicate it to their electorate and (b) make the decisions that a simple knee-jerk response wouldn't allow for.

Hence - we have elections every five years or so, and let our MPs 'get on with it' unless there are exception circumstances. Past experience tells us that mid-term polls usually run against the current party. It's completely normal for people to think, halfway through the implementation period, that things aren't going the way they wanted.

So... humm... it's not 'undemocratic' to have lots and lots of 'democracy' (votes) - it is however paralysing and tends to favour stasis. Those professional politicians who call for votes that they know are likely to derail an implementation phase may be acting in an 'undemocratic' manner, by deliberately calling for a situation that they know will prevent action being taken. At best they are being disingenuous (as are some on this forum) by claiming that 'more votes' are always to the benefit of the people.

[crankedup]

Still awake Giblit, my five year old grandson always watches recordings of ‘The Night Garden’
following which he gets tucked up in bed ready for sleepybyes. Sometimes, whilst he lays his head on the lovely soft pillow he reflects upon his day in the World, he asks a few questions regarding he U.K. brexit negotiations. We do our best to answer openly and honestly we know his future hangs in the balance on the outcome of those negotiations. We put his little mind at rest, assuring that all will be well and that he will prosper in his new independent U.K.
Of course we do not tell him of those nasty people who have the sole ambition of wreaking his new World into which he is destined to grow and prosper,

[alfie2244]

Ghibli said:

alfie2244 said:

No idea.....she's too busy trying to sort out far more important issues for which she is in great demand despite retiring 5 yrs ago.

That's a shame, she could have explained what will happen in a no deal situation.

I would think she is more concerned with actual problems that do exist currently, as should Drs IMO, not 2nd guessing what may or may not happen after Brexit....do you know what Will happen?

A few yrs ago now but she was involved in nurse recruitment and travelled world-wide...that was until orders were given to concentrate in favour of EU recruitment thereby discriminating against Indians etc .....which given the 40k shortage and the lack of UK nurses may not have been the best of ideas....there may be a Brexit link there for you to chew on.

[Murph7355]

djc206 said:

The GE was not fought over one issue. You could just as easily argue that we rejected the party on the basis that their leader was a homophobe or that we didn’t fancy a rise in income tax rates.

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about a second referendum. That doesn’t make it a good idea or necessary but the argument that it’s undemocratic is frankly ridiculous.

Democracy cannot be undemocratic no matter how undesirable it may be.

There has to be some mechanism for determining whether a referendum is desirable or not IMO. And opinion polls are not sufficient.

The last one needs to be implemented. The current government will be judged on that implementation and the next GE can include the EU question as a battleground if it's felt it needs to be (and I suspect that will be the case). There are standing mechanisms for prompting an early GE.

Simply calling a referendum before the last was implemented will cause the division on the country to widen, as it will further emphasise some of the biggest negatives of the EU.