Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3
Discussion
robinessex said:
What's happening in Paris then !!!!!! A big party ?
They're saving the planet from carbon dioxide induced climate change by flying groups of politicians, journalists, security, protestors, scientists and varying other religious nutters from all over the planet to waiting cars and limos which then transport them to expensive hotels 
robinessex said:
What's happening in Paris then !!!!!! A big party ?
Something like that Lots of carbon dioxide being produced in conveying politicians and activists to a beanfeast is fine, these politicians and activists emitting more carbon dioxide in hot air waffle is fine, the lack of any visible causal human signal in global climate date is fine (when they ignore it) so Party On Paris and a lack of any major hope of a binding international agreement on international redistribution of wealth aka climate 'science'.
Videoconferencing and conference calls, no chance.
robinessex said:
What's happening in Paris then !!!!!! A big party ?
I think we might hjave a better feel for that after the Big Party Planners have concluded their Pre-Party Planning Agreement meeting in Bonn (iirc) this week. Or is it next week?No point in having one jolly when there are options for two to try to ensure that all goes according to pre-expectations.
Paris is going to be a bit chilly. Whoever chose that venue is going to get a kicking when the next one's being chosen.
Will they be turning the heating in the buildings up to 11 in order to get into the mood?
If someone notices the CO2 fire extinguishers, all hell, and much fainting, will break out...
Will they be turning the heating in the buildings up to 11 in order to get into the mood?
If someone notices the CO2 fire extinguishers, all hell, and much fainting, will break out...
Jasandjules said:
How interesting - are they starting to try to hide their tracks now>?
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls...
The page has been saved 103 times on the Wayback page so they've got some way to go but it would be interesting to see if anything else has gone or if this is just a general cull of 15 year old content. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls...
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.independe...
well it seems that 2K+ ppm of CO2 is more than survivable...
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/claim-co2-ma...
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/claim-co2-ma...
ked: Can I just lob a somewhat off the wall suggestion into the pond to see how the ripples spread?
Steel plant closures.
More than likely these businesses, assets already sold off to inward investors, are actually just finding too much competition at too low prices and have become uneconomic. Maybe any effects of artificially hiking energy prices are just that - financial effects that would have little overall bearing on the ability of the businesses to survive a low demand market in a high labour cost location.
On the other hand ....
Losing industries that are consumers of vast amounts of energy might be seen in some philosophies as beneficial to the "war on CO2 production". And shutting down production now is quite timely should a cold winter ensue. The reduced demand might mean that the generating capacity surplus margin for the coldest days this winter will be less threatened than recent press releases have indicated.
How fortuitous such an outcome might be for some who might like to deflect attention from looming future problems when they know that there is no time available to improve availability by building infrastructure on the scale that would be required.
Steel plant closures.
More than likely these businesses, assets already sold off to inward investors, are actually just finding too much competition at too low prices and have become uneconomic. Maybe any effects of artificially hiking energy prices are just that - financial effects that would have little overall bearing on the ability of the businesses to survive a low demand market in a high labour cost location.
On the other hand ....
Losing industries that are consumers of vast amounts of energy might be seen in some philosophies as beneficial to the "war on CO2 production". And shutting down production now is quite timely should a cold winter ensue. The reduced demand might mean that the generating capacity surplus margin for the coldest days this winter will be less threatened than recent press releases have indicated.
How fortuitous such an outcome might be for some who might like to deflect attention from looming future problems when they know that there is no time available to improve availability by building infrastructure on the scale that would be required.
LongQ said:
Can I just lob a somewhat off the wall suggestion into the pond to see how the ripples spread?
Steel plant closures.
More than likely these businesses, assets already sold off to inward investors, are actually just finding too much competition at too low prices and have become uneconomic. Maybe any effects of artificially hiking energy prices are just that - financial effects that would have little overall bearing on the ability of the businesses to survive a low demand market in a high labour cost location.
On the other hand ....
Losing industries that are consumers of vast amounts of energy might be seen in some philosophies as beneficial to the "war on CO2 production". And shutting down production now is quite timely should a cold winter ensue. The reduced demand might mean that the generating capacity surplus margin for the coldest days this winter will be less threatened than recent press releases have indicated.
How fortuitous such an outcome might be for some who might like to deflect attention from looming future problems when they know that there is no time available to improve availability by building infrastructure on the scale that would be required.
Your implied conspiratorial story line would certainly sit well on a "Yes minister" script, however I fear that the level of competence necessary for that plan to be laid out in the annals of power are an order of magnitude higher than that actually available.Steel plant closures.
More than likely these businesses, assets already sold off to inward investors, are actually just finding too much competition at too low prices and have become uneconomic. Maybe any effects of artificially hiking energy prices are just that - financial effects that would have little overall bearing on the ability of the businesses to survive a low demand market in a high labour cost location.
On the other hand ....
Losing industries that are consumers of vast amounts of energy might be seen in some philosophies as beneficial to the "war on CO2 production". And shutting down production now is quite timely should a cold winter ensue. The reduced demand might mean that the generating capacity surplus margin for the coldest days this winter will be less threatened than recent press releases have indicated.
How fortuitous such an outcome might be for some who might like to deflect attention from looming future problems when they know that there is no time available to improve availability by building infrastructure on the scale that would be required.
XM5ER said:
Your implied conspiratorial story line would certainly sit well on a "Yes minister" script, however I fear that the level of competence necessary for that plan to be laid out in the annals of power are an order of magnitude higher than that actually available.
Also heavy industry is on the non-guaranteed supply - they are the first to be turned-off if a shortage occurs.XM5ER said:
Your implied conspiratorial story line would certainly sit well on a "Yes minister" script, however I fear that the level of competence necessary for that plan to be laid out in the annals of power are an order of magnitude higher than that actually available.
I don't think it would have been planned for the reasons you outline. Just a "convenient" by-product of other policies which might be enough to ensure that no one attempts to save the industry under any circumstances.Jinx said:
Also heavy industry is on the non-guaranteed supply - they are the first to be turned-off if a shortage occurs.
See my post above but it's not so much the supply that matters here. To have to switch off would still be a failure even if household lights stayed on.A policy of expensive energy and green taxes together with being the first to be switched off (and combined with low local and global demand) ought to be more than enough to suggest to the company managements that the plants are probably not going to be viable now or in the future.
finally, even the pig-thick unions are beginning to understand the problem:
http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/unions-v-steel-i...
need to remind them that it was their boy Ed that introduced this madness...
http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/unions-v-steel-i...
need to remind them that it was their boy Ed that introduced this madness...
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