Egypt Air flight MS804 missing!
Discussion
There used to be a RAF Flight Safety poster that stated: "In an Emergency, FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
I'll repeat that, just so the hard of thinking get it. "FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
If you forget this piece of sage advice you end up like Air France 447, or British Midland 92.
The next thing you do is deal with the Emergency. I can tell you from personal experience that no emergency is ever exactly like you what have practiced in the Sim (or, indeed, practiced airborne). Thus, despite how well trained you are, an emergency can be quite (brain) capacity sapping. Again, I can tell you this from personal experience.
Once you've done that, then you think about telling someone. Telling someone early, when you haven't got a handle on what's going on is guaranteed to mean you won't have given them enough infomation and it is guaranteed that they will come back with all sorts of Qs just when you are busy trying to action your Red Card drills (or whatever). Thereby sapping your capacity to cope further.
That is the way you do it. That is the only way you do it.
Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are f
king idiots.
I'll repeat that, just so the hard of thinking get it. "FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
If you forget this piece of sage advice you end up like Air France 447, or British Midland 92.
The next thing you do is deal with the Emergency. I can tell you from personal experience that no emergency is ever exactly like you what have practiced in the Sim (or, indeed, practiced airborne). Thus, despite how well trained you are, an emergency can be quite (brain) capacity sapping. Again, I can tell you this from personal experience.
Once you've done that, then you think about telling someone. Telling someone early, when you haven't got a handle on what's going on is guaranteed to mean you won't have given them enough infomation and it is guaranteed that they will come back with all sorts of Qs just when you are busy trying to action your Red Card drills (or whatever). Thereby sapping your capacity to cope further.
That is the way you do it. That is the only way you do it.
Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are f
king idiots.Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Saturday 21st May 23:37
el stovey said:
You've had it explained to you so many many times now. I get you don't really know much about it and that's great that you come on here to learn but why keep repeating the same thing?
I'm not explaining it any more. I'm sure others are fed up of doing it also.
Ive made 2 posts on the subject I'm not explaining it any more. I'm sure others are fed up of doing it also.
Pipe the f
k down. Same for the others preaching. I mean heaven forbid there is a different viewpoint. Edited by xjay1337 on Saturday 21st May 23:26
eharding said:
There is always room for a different viewpoint - but when that viewpoint appears to be that of a gobby misinformed Herbert...don't be surprised to be picked up on it. 
Wasnt gobby from my viewpoint, i just said why could the pilots have not alerted atc to an issue.And that "to me" it seemed silly that that wouldnt happen.
If it doesnt, fine, if that is not protocol then fine.
im not a pilot thank god.
Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 22 May 00:06
Some interesting comments here 
My tuppence worth.
We as paid airline drivers are drilled (ooo painful) every six months in the simulators. We have a set way of doing things. This is born out from years of accident investigations and how things could have been done a tad better. It's the way we are trained. If any of you here have a problem with that, take the train/boat/Sinclair C5. Or you could perhaps try to tell the regulators, airline management/training departments how it should be done...
Safe skies all....
My tuppence worth.
We as paid airline drivers are drilled (ooo painful) every six months in the simulators. We have a set way of doing things. This is born out from years of accident investigations and how things could have been done a tad better. It's the way we are trained. If any of you here have a problem with that, take the train/boat/Sinclair C5. Or you could perhaps try to tell the regulators, airline management/training departments how it should be done...
Safe skies all....
Laurel Green said:
road hog said:
A full page of "petty bickering" and no factual information...
A UFO was reported as being seen in the area on the day of the 'accident'.Should ET have concentrated on phoning home before he'd dealt with the emergency just to let the aliens know what was going on, or should he have evaded capture and built his communications device after securing his safe location?
To be fair to some of the posters who have been taking some flak over their suggestions about priorities during an emergency I think it was Chris boardman when talking about British Olympic cycling when he said,
"But we don't pay attention to what they are doing. Nor do we even look within our own sport. By now, we have learnt that game-changing ideas do not come from experts, they come from people who haven't got a clue and ask stupid questions.
"Why are you using 42cm bars?"
"Because we always have."
"Wouldn't it make sense to use narrower bars?"
And now you see us using narrower bars. Those questions make you stop and think where you didn't before. The difficulty for us is that every advance we make is copied. Yes, we use narrower bars, but look around you. All the top sprinters are doing it."
Because we always have should never be the answer to any question but in this instance regarding communication in an emergency, it isn't.
The reason pilots aren't always communicating the nature of the emergency in a timely fashion is because they are doing more important stuff. If they have the more important stuff under control, they then communicate their problem. There's no point at all in telling someone something if they can't actually help the situation,
The reason isn't that it's always been done that way, it's because it might be diverting precious time and energy that could be better used doing something more important.
Sully of the Hudson spoke to ATC because he was in some of the busiest airspace in he world and initially thought he wa going to need a runway cleared for him straight away,, he then informed them he was going into the river.
Our Egyptian friends either had no radios or no time to make a radio call as they were too busy or no time to do anything at all.
I think we should also consider that the data logging and voice recorders will most of the time tell us what we need to know if the worst happens. It's very rare for the plane to not be found at all. If the worst happens we have plenty of time to figure it out from that data. The pilots time is better spent using every second trying to stop the worst happening, rather than duplicating something the plane is doing itself.
el stovey said:
The reason pilots aren't always communicating the nature of the emergency in a timely fashion is because they are doing more important stuff. If they have the more important stuff under control, they then communicate their problem. There's no point at all in telling someone something if they can't actually help the situation,
The reason isn't that it's always been done that way, it's because it might be diverting precious time and energy that could be better used doing something more important.
Sully of the Hudson spoke to ATC because he was in some of the busiest airspace in he world and initially thought he wa going to need a runway cleared for him straight away,, he then informed them he was going into the river.
His mayday is in response to the ATC message, so is also succinctly telling them to "shut up I busy aviating"The reason isn't that it's always been done that way, it's because it might be diverting precious time and energy that could be better used doing something more important.
Sully of the Hudson spoke to ATC because he was in some of the busiest airspace in he world and initially thought he wa going to need a runway cleared for him straight away,, he then informed them he was going into the river.
Some of the talk on prune seems to be considering a fire in the crew's emergency oxygen system, that must a nightmare scenario.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Sunday 22 May 10:33
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