Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?
Discussion
nikaiyo2 said:
Integroo said:
In Scotland you don't pay for water at the level you consume, it's just wrapped into your council tax.
Lol thats why you pay nearly 3 times what i pay for water in a similar value property on the south coast 
BlackLabel said:
Where I am more than 50% of council tax revenue now goes towards servicing the local authorities’ debt. I’m sure that’s the case elsewhere too.
Something will have to change soon however I doubt any reforms will leave us better off.
And 1/3 goes on their pensions! (even more in Scotland)Something will have to change soon however I doubt any reforms will leave us better off.
fblm said:
I don't know what your position is from thread to thread so I've given up trying. 3 months ago you wanted higher income tax on high earners. Then you get a job in the dreaded 62% marginal rate bracket which is an unpleasant surprise to you. Now you want lower income tax and LVT. You argue for lower house prices on every thread yet now claim you want to keep renting. Righto. You're all over the place. Full of opinions but you know nothing. Then you whine about playing the ball not the man but invariably call people all kinds of names when you fail to articulate or support whatever point you're making today. We get it; you're highly successful but deeply caring, you're better than us. You know how to fix societies ills but you're not prepared to do it yourself unless everyone else is also forced to. Get back to us after a decade working 60+ hour weeks for your new employer, when you're paying half your income in tax and not just at the marginal rate and tell us you're not paying your 'fair share'.
I don't want lower income tax on higher earners. If we aren't going to see fundamental change to the taxation system, I want higher taxation on higher earners. You contribute nothing other than moaning about high taxes.
I also argued in favour of LVT when I was earning much less.
Your view seems to be that unless you're a top rate taxpayer your view is irrelevant. Leave the adults with the big wages and the buy to lets decide how the country should be run.
I also have never claimed I will rent forever but certainly for the foreseeable short term future. I never stated otherwise.
This forum is full of bitter selfish old men who look down their noses at anyone less fortunate than themselves. I hope I never turn into that.
Edited by Integroo on Tuesday 19th February 22:44
Integregoo, I have no idea who you are, I have only seen your posts at the end of this thread, but let me guess that you are <30, have no kids and as implied above are not a top rate taxpayer ?
I am actually envious of your nievity but congrats at doing well enough to lose your personal allowance (assuming you have) ;-)
I am actually envious of your nievity but congrats at doing well enough to lose your personal allowance (assuming you have) ;-)
Integroo said:
1) poor schooling / lack of tutoring meaning they don't get the grades despite being sufficiently bright, having to work to fund their studies giving them less time to study, not having the support to apply to top universities including drafting personal statements etc, the need to apply for bursaries etc that they may not get and are in limited supply acting as a barrier to entry, no encouragement to pursue a path that goes above and beyond what their parents and their peers are doing, poverty leading crime / violence / gangs / etc. ... that's only a few, the list is endless.
Note these are barriers, not absolute exclusions. It is obviously not the case that a particularly bright, well driven individual can fight their way past these. I want to remove/reduce barriers. I have been accused of being naive elsewhere in this thread but I put it to you that is is particularly naive to suggest that a child to two investment bankers in Kensington and a child to a single mother in Lewisham can both achieve the same provided they work equally as hard.
2) That doesn't sound very sensible, if the profitability of btl drops why would you not put your money into a more profitable asset class?
Re. 1) These are your fairly clear strongly held opinions. I do not agree with them. As just one example I'd ask you how many sons of investment banker parents play in the top football leagues around Europe and then how many sons of working class or deprived households? Note these are barriers, not absolute exclusions. It is obviously not the case that a particularly bright, well driven individual can fight their way past these. I want to remove/reduce barriers. I have been accused of being naive elsewhere in this thread but I put it to you that is is particularly naive to suggest that a child to two investment bankers in Kensington and a child to a single mother in Lewisham can both achieve the same provided they work equally as hard.
2) That doesn't sound very sensible, if the profitability of btl drops why would you not put your money into a more profitable asset class?
However, your opinions on social mobility don't really illustrate how LVT is going to do anything to assist or even affect the matter.
Re. 2) Profitability would have to drop by far more than the 'LVT effect' to even consider shifting money out of property. And that's without even thinking about capital gain.
Mind you, if you can tell me how to get 10% on my money safely, consistently and without any effort on my part then I'd be interested.
(but you can't).
Integroo said:
We need more money to fund our public services. Those with the deepest pockets should bear the biggest burden. You may think the amount of tax currently paid by someone on £1m a year is egregious, but quite frankly that person still lives a life of great privilege, and can afford to contribute more.
But i dont see why someone whos worked their balls off should be taxed any more than anyone else who owns a house , despite its size etc, if theres only 2 there why charge H category or whatever it is and screw them over.. Thats just socialism and we all know how popular that is.PorkRind said:
Integroo said:
We need more money to fund our public services. Those with the deepest pockets should bear the biggest burden. You may think the amount of tax currently paid by someone on £1m a year is egregious, but quite frankly that person still lives a life of great privilege, and can afford to contribute more.
But i dont see why someone whos worked their balls off should be taxed any more than anyone else who owns a house , despite its size etc, if theres only 2 there why charge H category or whatever it is and screw them over.. Thats just socialism and we all know how popular that is.768 said:
PorkRind said:
Integroo said:
We need more money to fund our public services. Those with the deepest pockets should bear the biggest burden. You may think the amount of tax currently paid by someone on £1m a year is egregious, but quite frankly that person still lives a life of great privilege, and can afford to contribute more.
But i dont see why someone whos worked their balls off should be taxed any more than anyone else who owns a house , despite its size etc, if theres only 2 there why charge H category or whatever it is and screw them over.. Thats just socialism and we all know how popular that is.turbobloke said:
Sounds a bit like Geldof Syndrome meets Liam Byrne Disease 'give us yer ferkin money because we know better than you how to spend it all'. Then 'we need even more money from other people so we can spend even more'. Rinse and repeat.
You do realise you're about to be called a moron or a halfwit, don't you? Or possible a hard right zealot.Countdown said:
The fall in SDLT receipts is more likely to be because of the cuts in SDLT at the bottom end of the market rather than increases at the top end.
According to estate agents in my area, and in my own experience, the market has collapsed due to the punitive levels of Stamp Duty. Buyers refuse to pay it consequently vendors decide not to sell. The £1.5m - £2.5m market has been killed as a result and that is trickling down the chain and there is less fluidity.A tax bill of £200,000 for buying your home is a major disincentive - if you think you might live somewhere for 5 years, that's a tax bill of £40,000 every year... for nothing. It would be far cheaper to rent somewhere for £40k a year instead of giving the government all of the potential growth value in your asset on the day of transaction. That's why tax receipts are down.
The other issue which has contributed is a fear of Corbyn's gang of Loons getting into power - buyers are very wary of owning a home with a large garden as McDonnell has threatened even more taxation.
Rovinghawk said:
turbobloke said:
Sounds a bit like Geldof Syndrome meets Liam Byrne Disease 'give us yer ferkin money because we know better than you how to spend it all'. Then 'we need even more money from other people so we can spend even more'. Rinse and repeat.
You do realise you're about to be called a moron or a halfwit, don't you? Or possible a hard right zealot.NDA said:
Countdown said:
The fall in SDLT receipts is more likely to be because of the cuts in SDLT at the bottom end of the market rather than increases at the top end.
According to estate agents in my area, and in my own experience, the market has collapsed due to the punitive levels of Stamp Duty. Buyers refuse to pay it consequently vendors decide not to sell. The £1.5m - £2.5m market has been killed as a result and that is trickling down the chain and there is less fluidity.A tax bill of £200,000 for buying your home is a major disincentive - if you think you might live somewhere for 5 years, that's a tax bill of £40,000 every year... for nothing. It would be far cheaper to rent somewhere for £40k a year instead of giving the government all of the potential growth value in your asset on the day of transaction. That's why tax receipts are down.
The other issue which has contributed is a fear of Corbyn's gang of Loons getting into power - buyers are very wary of owning a home with a large garden as McDonnell has threatened even more taxation.
Labour is very late to pick up the idea of LVT & it's still not part of mainstream Labour thought - historically in the UK it's been a preserve of the Liberals.
edh said:
Stop falling for the disinformation... LVT doesn't tax gardens, it doesn't matter if you have a few sq ft or half an acre. LVT is levied on the permitted use of the land, so if you have PP for one house, that's where the value is in either case. If you have PP for ten houses on your half acre plot, then the land is worth a lot more, and LVT would be higher.
Labour is very late to pick up the idea of LVT & it's still not part of mainstream Labour thought - historically in the UK it's been a preserve of the Liberals.
Nobody is quite sure how the policy would be implemented, however the Institute for Public Policy Research in a research paper on Land Value Tax said that “there would be many losers” and it might become “a tax on gardens” because large gardens would be sold off to developers.Labour is very late to pick up the idea of LVT & it's still not part of mainstream Labour thought - historically in the UK it's been a preserve of the Liberals.
As I mentioned earlier, houses with land are proving difficult to sell because of ludicrously high Stamp Duty rates - combined with the fact that buyers are worried about a Marxist government adding new taxes. Whether this is 'disinformation' or not, it is having a negative effect.
NDA said:
According to estate agents in my area, and in my own experience, the market has collapsed due to the punitive levels of Stamp Duty. Buyers refuse to pay it consequently vendors decide not to sell. The £1.5m - £2.5m market has been killed as a result and that is trickling down the chain and there is less fluidity.
A tax bill of £200,000 for buying your home is a major disincentive - if you think you might live somewhere for 5 years, that's a tax bill of £40,000 every year... for nothing. It would be far cheaper to rent somewhere for £40k a year instead of giving the government all of the potential growth value in your asset on the day of transaction. That's why tax receipts are down.
The other issue which has contributed is a fear of Corbyn's gang of Loons getting into power - buyers are very wary of owning a home with a large garden as McDonnell has threatened even more taxation.
There is some analysis on the link below.A tax bill of £200,000 for buying your home is a major disincentive - if you think you might live somewhere for 5 years, that's a tax bill of £40,000 every year... for nothing. It would be far cheaper to rent somewhere for £40k a year instead of giving the government all of the potential growth value in your asset on the day of transaction. That's why tax receipts are down.
The other issue which has contributed is a fear of Corbyn's gang of Loons getting into power - buyers are very wary of owning a home with a large garden as McDonnell has threatened even more taxation.
http://www.estateagentnews.co.uk/q3-sdlt-receipts-...
It's not just the top end of the market where receipts are down. It's also due to FTB relief and less income from HRAD. The article also refers to Brexit.
SDLT under the "old system" didn't stop house sales from happening. What it did (and still does) is change the selling price - Sellers either have to reduce their asking price, or buyers have to factor the increased costs into their budget or probably both.
Countdown said:
SDLT under the "old system" didn't stop house sales from happening. What it did (and still does) is change the selling price - Sellers either have to reduce their asking price, or buyers have to factor the increased costs into their budget or probably both.
And you don't think a huge change in price will affect whether a house gets sold?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff