Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
CraigyMc said:
andymadmak said:
S600BSB said:
Agree. Didn’t his bank drop him because he didn’t meet earnings thresholds or something? Clearly needs to get a few quid in the bank.
I thought it was established (after a lot of speculation and misinformation from the bank) that Coutts tried to drop him because of his politics? Whatever we might think of Farage we should not be condoning banks behaving in that way imho.
So it's a bit of both. Without his account going so low they'd not have even reviewed it though.
S600BSB said:
CraigyMc said:
andymadmak said:
S600BSB said:
Agree. Didn’t his bank drop him because he didn’t meet earnings thresholds or something? Clearly needs to get a few quid in the bank.
I thought it was established (after a lot of speculation and misinformation from the bank) that Coutts tried to drop him because of his politics? Whatever we might think of Farage we should not be condoning banks behaving in that way imho.
So it's a bit of both. Without his account going so low they'd not have even reviewed it though.
I have a Virgin Money account id forgotten about that I'll be closing as soon as the NatWest takeover is complete. Got an email that the VM shareholders has approved it this afternoon.
captain_cynic said:
S600BSB said:
CraigyMc said:
andymadmak said:
S600BSB said:
Agree. Didn’t his bank drop him because he didn’t meet earnings thresholds or something? Clearly needs to get a few quid in the bank.
I thought it was established (after a lot of speculation and misinformation from the bank) that Coutts tried to drop him because of his politics? Whatever we might think of Farage we should not be condoning banks behaving in that way imho.
So it's a bit of both. Without his account going so low they'd not have even reviewed it though.
I have a Virgin Money account id forgotten about that I'll be closing as soon as the NatWest takeover is complete. Got an email that the VM shareholders has approved it this afternoon.
I think the current major parties are absolute s
te, and can't bring myself to vote tory or Labour. So this thread got me looking at Reform Uk's manifesto.
It's quite good, apart from the immigration policies and leaving the ECHR.
Abandonment of NetZero, repealing the ban on ICE cars, if you're petrol head their worthy of consideration. I don't actually think that they could even get the UK out of the ECHR, but the other reforms around the House of Lords and politics generally would be interesting to see happen.
Now if they can tone down the immigration stuff, they probably get my vote.
te, and can't bring myself to vote tory or Labour. So this thread got me looking at Reform Uk's manifesto.It's quite good, apart from the immigration policies and leaving the ECHR.
Abandonment of NetZero, repealing the ban on ICE cars, if you're petrol head their worthy of consideration. I don't actually think that they could even get the UK out of the ECHR, but the other reforms around the House of Lords and politics generally would be interesting to see happen.
Now if they can tone down the immigration stuff, they probably get my vote.
I wouldn't deign to advise anyone to vote for this or that party but I would gently suggest that Reform are not going to tone down the rhetoric on immigration and that their manifesto is at best incoherent.
Take for example, the pledge to clear NHS waiting lists in 24 months. That sits alongside a commitment to reduce immigration to net zero. The latter would cripple the former and the former is under severe stress already with an NHS heavily staffed by immigrants. It's not credible.
Take for example, the pledge to clear NHS waiting lists in 24 months. That sits alongside a commitment to reduce immigration to net zero. The latter would cripple the former and the former is under severe stress already with an NHS heavily staffed by immigrants. It's not credible.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Now if they can tone down the immigration stuff, they probably get my vote.
Go and have a skim through the social media profiles of a few Reform supporters / party officials / candidates and then tell us whether they're likely to tone down the anti foreigner stuff 
the point for me is that, all the manifestos are full of implausible ste. But Reform for all its spitefulness does appear to be the only one prepared to have a discussion around NetZero and that for me is the overriding policy that needs reviewing in the next parliament.
Labour will double down on it because they like legislation and pain, Tory's might water it down a bit depending on who can make some money out of it, LibDEMs and Greens will have us living in caves by 2030.
I wouldn't consider the Tory's immigration policy particularly charitable, and in any case, almost none of these pledges will happen.
te. But Reform for all its spitefulness does appear to be the only one prepared to have a discussion around NetZero and that for me is the overriding policy that needs reviewing in the next parliament. Labour will double down on it because they like legislation and pain, Tory's might water it down a bit depending on who can make some money out of it, LibDEMs and Greens will have us living in caves by 2030.
I wouldn't consider the Tory's immigration policy particularly charitable, and in any case, almost none of these pledges will happen.
smn159 said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Now if they can tone down the immigration stuff, they probably get my vote.
Go and have a skim through the social media profiles of a few Reform supporters / party officials / candidates and then tell us whether they're likely to tone down the anti foreigner stuff It's got sod all to do with "anti foreigner". It's about having an infrastructure capable of absorbing immigrants and without the growth where does the money come from to do that, The Labour magic money tree I suppose or the current way of ever increasing taxes.
Most sensible people are not anti immigration or anti foreigner. But the open door, welcome to everyone and anyone policy of the last 20 years is bloody madness. Unless you're a major corporate that thrives on cheap labour of course.
We've got ourselves in to a right old mess needing more immigration to support the immigration. At some point in time we've got to get off the merry go round. Slow it right down to essential only and give the infrastructure time to catch up. NHS, Law and Order, Schools, housing etc etc are f
ked at the moment. Some politician was waffling on about needing 3 million new homes or something just to catch up. Next year it'll be 3.3 million. Last year we managed 213,000. Reform are the only people that seem to want to tackle the problem. Brexit wasn't about a dislike of the French, the Germans etc it was about immigration. The two major parties really don't want to tackle it. They talk about "the boats" to appease the masses but thats' less than 5% of the problem.
Edited by Harry H on Friday 24th May 10:20
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
the point for me is that, all the manifestos are full of implausible ste. But Reform for all its spitefulness does appear to be the only one prepared to have a discussion around NetZero and that for me is the overriding policy that needs reviewing in the next parliament.
Labour will double down on it because they like legislation and pain, Tory's might water it down a bit depending on who can make some money out of it, LibDEMs and Greens will have us living in caves by 2030.
I wouldn't consider the Tory's immigration policy particularly charitable, and in any case, almost none of these pledges will happen.
My current local MP has debranded herself, put a letter of no-confidence in for Sunak last year and launched her own "manifesto" that seems to be aligned with Reform stuff while also satisfying the oil money funder "Net Zero Watch" organisation she's on the board of. She's also suggesting no to net-zero but then also yes to net-zero on the next line... just different types. te. But Reform for all its spitefulness does appear to be the only one prepared to have a discussion around NetZero and that for me is the overriding policy that needs reviewing in the next parliament. Labour will double down on it because they like legislation and pain, Tory's might water it down a bit depending on who can make some money out of it, LibDEMs and Greens will have us living in caves by 2030.
I wouldn't consider the Tory's immigration policy particularly charitable, and in any case, almost none of these pledges will happen.
She's likely to get an absolute pasting if the current polls are anything to go by, I don't know why she doesn't jump ship and stand as a Reform candidate, the seat is one of the ones being changed to include other areas but a decent chunk of it once voted the BNP in and had the highest party membership for them in the UK, I suspect they're all still here and voted Conservative on the back of Brexit promises and would be ripe targets for some surface level xenophobia.
Reform are disrupters and it's clear the Conservatives are worried about them diverting votes from certain types of people, they aren't winning any seats though.
Harry H said:
So you guys think importing the equivalent of a city the size of Sheffield every single year is sustainable without any growth in GDP never mind the all important GDP per head which is a reflection of our quality of life.
It's got sod all to do with "anti foreigner". It's about having an infrastructure capable of absorbing immigrants and without the growth where does the money come from to do that, The Labour magic money tree I suppose or the current way of ever increasing taxes.
Most sensible people are not anti immigration or anti foreigner. But the open door, welcome to everyone and anyone policy of the last 20 years is bloody madness. Unless you're a major corporate that thrives on cheap labour of course.
We've got ourselves in to a right old mess needing more immigration to support the immigration. At some point in time we've got to get off the merry go round. Slow it right down to essential only and give the infrastructure time to catch up. NHS, Law and Order, Schools, housing etc etc are fked at the moment. Some politician was waffling on about needing 3 million new homes or something just to catch up. Next year it'll be 3.3 million. Last year we managed 213,000.
Reform are the only people that seem to want to tackle the problem. Brexit wasn't about a dislike of the French, the Germans etc it was about immigration. The two major parties really don't want to tackle it. They talk about "the boats" to appease the masses but thats' less than 5% of the problem.
Its worth noting that GDP growth has only been zero or below zero twice in the last thirty years. Its is growing every other year bar those two. It's got sod all to do with "anti foreigner". It's about having an infrastructure capable of absorbing immigrants and without the growth where does the money come from to do that, The Labour magic money tree I suppose or the current way of ever increasing taxes.
Most sensible people are not anti immigration or anti foreigner. But the open door, welcome to everyone and anyone policy of the last 20 years is bloody madness. Unless you're a major corporate that thrives on cheap labour of course.
We've got ourselves in to a right old mess needing more immigration to support the immigration. At some point in time we've got to get off the merry go round. Slow it right down to essential only and give the infrastructure time to catch up. NHS, Law and Order, Schools, housing etc etc are f
ked at the moment. Some politician was waffling on about needing 3 million new homes or something just to catch up. Next year it'll be 3.3 million. Last year we managed 213,000. Reform are the only people that seem to want to tackle the problem. Brexit wasn't about a dislike of the French, the Germans etc it was about immigration. The two major parties really don't want to tackle it. They talk about "the boats" to appease the masses but thats' less than 5% of the problem.
Edited by Harry H on Friday 24th May 10:20
Also worth noting that GDP per head is on an upwards trajectory since the COVID crash.
Not that I want to get into a debate, but its worth being a bit more factual to support the argument.
The main issue really around immigration I see is not around slamming the door shut, its about management. People will move geographies it has happened since the dawn of time, hell some of the largest populations on the planet now started somewhere else ;-) The issue is that over 50% off immigrants in 2023 have yet to even start being processed, the system and funding for it isn't fit for purpose which sits with the Tories, they had a decade to get it right.
thetapeworm said:
My current local MP has debranded herself, put a letter of no-confidence in for Sunak last year and launched her own "manifesto" that seems to be aligned with Reform stuff while also satisfying the oil money funder "Net Zero Watch" organisation she's on the board of. She's also suggesting no to net-zero but then also yes to net-zero on the next line... just different types.
She's likely to get an absolute pasting if the current polls are anything to go by, I don't know why she doesn't jump ship and stand as a Reform candidate, the seat is one of the ones being changed to include other areas but a decent chunk of it once voted the BNP in and had the highest party membership for them in the UK, I suspect they're all still here and voted Conservative on the back of Brexit promises and would be ripe targets for some surface level xenophobia.
Reform are disrupters and it's clear the Conservatives are worried about them diverting votes from certain types of people, they aren't winning any seats though.
I’d forgotten about her - could be another classy ‘Portillo moment’ on election night?She's likely to get an absolute pasting if the current polls are anything to go by, I don't know why she doesn't jump ship and stand as a Reform candidate, the seat is one of the ones being changed to include other areas but a decent chunk of it once voted the BNP in and had the highest party membership for them in the UK, I suspect they're all still here and voted Conservative on the back of Brexit promises and would be ripe targets for some surface level xenophobia.
Reform are disrupters and it's clear the Conservatives are worried about them diverting votes from certain types of people, they aren't winning any seats though.
thetapeworm said:
My current local MP has debranded herself, put a letter of no-confidence in for Sunak last year and launched her own "manifesto" that seems to be aligned with Reform stuff while also satisfying the oil money funder "Net Zero Watch" organisation she's on the board of. She's also suggesting no to net-zero but then also yes to net-zero on the next line... just different types.
She's likely to get an absolute pasting if the current polls are anything to go by, I don't know why she doesn't jump ship and stand as a Reform candidate, the seat is one of the ones being changed to include other areas but a decent chunk of it once voted the BNP in and had the highest party membership for them in the UK, I suspect they're all still here and voted Conservative on the back of Brexit promises and would be ripe targets for some surface level xenophobia.
Reform are disrupters and it's clear the Conservatives are worried about them diverting votes from certain types of people, they aren't winning any seats though.
That's just a tick list for Facebook culture warriors. Bonus loon points for calling 'common sense' She's likely to get an absolute pasting if the current polls are anything to go by, I don't know why she doesn't jump ship and stand as a Reform candidate, the seat is one of the ones being changed to include other areas but a decent chunk of it once voted the BNP in and had the highest party membership for them in the UK, I suspect they're all still here and voted Conservative on the back of Brexit promises and would be ripe targets for some surface level xenophobia.
Reform are disrupters and it's clear the Conservatives are worried about them diverting votes from certain types of people, they aren't winning any seats though.
JagLover said:
coldel said:
Also worth noting that GDP per head is on an upwards trajectory since the COVID crash.
GDP per head fell in 2023 by 0.7%. However given that GDP per head has been on an upward curve for something like 16 out of the last 20 years, with breaks for large scale events like market crashes and the like. The point was, that there is a statement that we have no GDP growth (false) and that GDP per head is failing (it dropped last year but mostly its been on a nice increase for 20 years bar two global events).
In fact, the large global events are probably what gives you a pointer towards what drives GDP per head more than anything.
Edited by coldel on Friday 24th May 11:50
Edited by coldel on Friday 24th May 11:52
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