London Protests (riot) this weekend....
Discussion
Guam said:
Absolutely classic example of the "entitlement" disease that ravages our nation.
Unfortunately too many people really do believe the "world owes them a living"!!
There is no shame it apears to me anymore, in failing to provide for yourself or your dependants. Indeed it often seems to me, that the shame is reserved for those who are mug enough to earn a living any way they can?
No no, not entitlement. (Well not this person).Unfortunately too many people really do believe the "world owes them a living"!!
There is no shame it apears to me anymore, in failing to provide for yourself or your dependants. Indeed it often seems to me, that the shame is reserved for those who are mug enough to earn a living any way they can?
The way he sees it is that he's paid taxes for 25 years in full, but the benefits system allows him to be nearly as well off as he was working 8-10 hours a day. And he is a person with fantastic energy and resources to work hard.
Nor does he think the world owes him anything either. It's just that the welfare state provides for everything. So using various loopholes, eg full time carer, he doesn't have to sign on, which relieves him of any pressure to account for being unemployed.
Shameless is probably a good word, but then the last 13 years was all about "not judging other peoples lifestyles". So there is no shame in signing on anymore as "we're not allowed to judge people".
And don't for a minute think that I've gone along with it. My very words were "I hope your arm chair is comfortable, because that's the chair you'll have your heart attack in".
Idleness is a sure fire way of building health problems.
It's also a catch 22. Being idle creates health problems, health problems create a dependence on welfare, dependence on welfare creates idleness.
Derek Smith said:
Indeed. We need graduates in the sciences and maths. These should be subsidised, encouraging people from all walks of life to become more productive. If anyone wants to become a lawyer then they should wait for one of the current ones to die. And I think there are enough Greek histories to last us until the end of the recession. We should not be giving massive subsidies to Oxbridge and the LSE, which is what we are doing now, but to the science based unis.
If we want to do something with this country then we need to compete with the emerging nations and the way to do this is via scientists.
No important scientific advances have ever come out of Oxbridge, of course.....If we want to do something with this country then we need to compete with the emerging nations and the way to do this is via scientists.
Du1point8 said:
The bit I dont like is why should I be taxed more so that more of these generation welfare people can have the same luxuries that I have to work bloody well hard for...
That's an interesting point and very close to my heart.In our family I like to think that I've worked reasonably hard, achieved some success and acquired some of the material benefits which flow from that success. However, parents see those material benefits and then say "your poor brother/sister hasn't got one of those" and go out and buy the same thing for them!
Ozzie Osmond said:
That's an interesting point and very close to my heart.
In our family I like to think that I've worked reasonably hard, achieved some success and acquired some of the material benefits which flow from that success. However, parents see those material benefits and then say "your poor brother/sister hasn't got one of those" and go out and buy the same thing for them!
Socialists!!!!!!!In our family I like to think that I've worked reasonably hard, achieved some success and acquired some of the material benefits which flow from that success. However, parents see those material benefits and then say "your poor brother/sister hasn't got one of those" and go out and buy the same thing for them!
Ozzie Osmond said:
Du1point8 said:
The bit I dont like is why should I be taxed more so that more of these generation welfare people can have the same luxuries that I have to work bloody well hard for...
That's an interesting point and very close to my heart.In our family I like to think that I've worked reasonably hard, achieved some success and acquired some of the material benefits which flow from that success. However, parents see those material benefits and then say "your poor brother/sister hasn't got one of those" and go out and buy the same thing for them!
Assuming you have all had the same chances, then why does you parents think you should subsidise your siblings life if they didnt make the right choices, didnt work as hard, etc???
Du1point8 said:
That would piss me off... You work hard for it and then they think its not fair that you have it and they dont... where will it stop? You buy a sports car and they think its not fair and you get one for your other sibling? You buy a house and they dont have one?
Assuming you have all had the same chances, then why does you parents think you should subsidise your siblings life if they didnt make the right choices, didnt work as hard, etc???
It could be that they prefer the other siblings? Assuming you have all had the same chances, then why does you parents think you should subsidise your siblings life if they didnt make the right choices, didnt work as hard, etc???
Guam said:
All Fine but where the hell is his self respect??
Is that where we are at? Where even those who have recognised the dignity and personal reward in providing for yourself, have now been seduced into the "layabout mentality".
If that is the case, we are even more f
ked culturally, than I had imagined?
Is that where we are at? Where even those who have recognised the dignity and personal reward in providing for yourself, have now been seduced into the "layabout mentality".
If that is the case, we are even more f
ked culturally, than I had imagined?
Even if I won the lottery I'd still work at something for a significant chunk of my time.
Everything in life tastes sweeter when you've worked for it.
bosscerbera said:
Winston's/Maggie's one-liners are both correct. Hurrah. But the problem with capitalism or, to be precise, the peculiar strain of free market capitalism in major English-speaking economies, is that it does not actually provide the "poor sod at the bottom" with anything to do. Which gives a crude insight into the perception of Tories making money and Socialists giving it away.
Today's problems are that so much money - not even "our money" anymore - has been given away, and so many people have nothing to do, that the wheels have well and truly come off the wagon.
As I see it, it's more that too often the poor sod at the bottom can't be arsed (sorry, couldn't resist) to do anything, even when there is plenty to do. Too often native Brits of the uneducated variety would rather be on the dole than take a job cleaning or serving hot drinks at a coffee emporium. Therefore, your cleaner or barista is likely to be of eastern european extraction, because there are plenty of them with a good work ethic. They wouldn't have travelled all this way and been followed by their friends if those vacancies did not exist, but they do exist because too many of our countrymen would rather watch Trisha and play x-box at our expense, and our elected representatives have been too willing to allow them.Today's problems are that so much money - not even "our money" anymore - has been given away, and so many people have nothing to do, that the wheels have well and truly come off the wagon.
Zod said:
No important scientific advances have ever come out of Oxbridge, of course.....
FFS, its another bloody post Ive got to agree with Zod on.Derrick old boy, one does hate to pop your bubble of ignorance, but Ive got A Levels in ancient Greek & Roman literature, philosophy and architecture. A degree in politics from the oldest academic Seat in the world and if I wanted to be cringingly vain I could legitimately say that rocket science was the easy part of my current job, instead of my more usual attitude of being an engineer is nothing more than a glorified way of admitting Im a sad tw@t.
Zod can you go back to saying what a great car you think the M5 is and being insufferbly smug so I can go back to insulting you? It feels unnatural to keep agreeing with you.
DJC said:
Zod can you go back to saying what a great car you think the M5 is and being insufferbly smug so I can go back to insulting you? It feels unnatural to keep agreeing with you.
I could do, but I've said it enough times now. However much we agree on ther subjects, I'm not going to change my mind about that car. I'm thinking of selling it. Can I tempt you? 
I'll start off by showing you all the opinion of someone who i'm friends with on Facebook. They are, like me, a student in a sixth form college.
"Great day, the Ritz got smashed up, I questioned a policeman on the lack of black officers, various bankers scared stless, much chanting,"
So, as you can see, most of the protestors are really just idiots. I mean come on. Does this person (and likely many more morons my age) really think smashing up the Ritz (which I guess is where all these Marxists thought the bankers hide all their gold that they stole from peasants) is really going to make David Cameron go OH FORGIVE ME. No, its all pointless.
This morning on the Wright Stuff (my mum had it on) some guy called in and was questioned about whether it will make any difference and he kept saying 'Yes it will, Cameron will have to listen'. What is it with all these people? They all seem to be deluded in that they think that (at the most) 500,000 people protesting will actually change what David Cameron thinks? NO! When the hell did any government have unanimous total support from 100% of the people. There are 61,000,000 other people in the country who didn't protest (of course, the very young and elderly probably wouldn't protest) Of course, some will agree with the protest, but even if every protestor represents the view of 10 or 20 people, that really isn't much of an impact. 10 million out of 40 million voters don't like Cameron entirely? That was likely the case in May 2010, seeing as he only got 30-40% of the vote anyway. THUS HE DOESN'T WANT TO OR NEED TO CARE ABOUT IT.
As you can see, i'm mildly frustrated by this.
"Great day, the Ritz got smashed up, I questioned a policeman on the lack of black officers, various bankers scared s
tless, much chanting,"So, as you can see, most of the protestors are really just idiots. I mean come on. Does this person (and likely many more morons my age) really think smashing up the Ritz (which I guess is where all these Marxists thought the bankers hide all their gold that they stole from peasants) is really going to make David Cameron go OH FORGIVE ME. No, its all pointless.
This morning on the Wright Stuff (my mum had it on) some guy called in and was questioned about whether it will make any difference and he kept saying 'Yes it will, Cameron will have to listen'. What is it with all these people? They all seem to be deluded in that they think that (at the most) 500,000 people protesting will actually change what David Cameron thinks? NO! When the hell did any government have unanimous total support from 100% of the people. There are 61,000,000 other people in the country who didn't protest (of course, the very young and elderly probably wouldn't protest) Of course, some will agree with the protest, but even if every protestor represents the view of 10 or 20 people, that really isn't much of an impact. 10 million out of 40 million voters don't like Cameron entirely? That was likely the case in May 2010, seeing as he only got 30-40% of the vote anyway. THUS HE DOESN'T WANT TO OR NEED TO CARE ABOUT IT.
As you can see, i'm mildly frustrated by this.
Pesty said:
Remember the EMA scheme that cost £560m so was cancelled by the condems?
well radio 4 announced today that a new 'EMA' was coming in and would be double.
coincidence or doe these marches work?
where are the savings then if this is the case?
don't get it.
That was announced last year.well radio 4 announced today that a new 'EMA' was coming in and would be double.
coincidence or doe these marches work?
where are the savings then if this is the case?
don't get it.
EMA didn't work as the wrong people were getting it.
IT is now being given to those who need it, and not those who just want it as the EMA was.
It's doubling for the simple fact that hardly anyone will get it.
For example, a friend of mine, who was privately educated, lived in a 7 bedroom house and whose mother lived on extensive alimony payments (enough for her to run two cars and to not work at all) qualified for EMA. £30 pounds a week. Why? well of course, alimony! He came from a single parent family! Despite the fact he lived in a £1.5 million house and his father was a millionaire, he could still claim for EMA.
The reforms will stop this from happening by tightening the gap from which people can claim, and likely more detailed, thorough means testing.
But no, reforming this clear idiocy within the policy that has been known for some time is clearly a result of Saturday. My, the administrators in Whitehall sure can write up a complex monetary reform like this very quickly, especially considering they don't even work on weekends! How venerable! A massive reform of a wide scale subsidy reformed entirely within 6 hours! Oh wait, that's bullst.
For example, a friend of mine, who was privately educated, lived in a 7 bedroom house and whose mother lived on extensive alimony payments (enough for her to run two cars and to not work at all) qualified for EMA. £30 pounds a week. Why? well of course, alimony! He came from a single parent family! Despite the fact he lived in a £1.5 million house and his father was a millionaire, he could still claim for EMA.
The reforms will stop this from happening by tightening the gap from which people can claim, and likely more detailed, thorough means testing.
But no, reforming this clear idiocy within the policy that has been known for some time is clearly a result of Saturday. My, the administrators in Whitehall sure can write up a complex monetary reform like this very quickly, especially considering they don't even work on weekends! How venerable! A massive reform of a wide scale subsidy reformed entirely within 6 hours! Oh wait, that's bulls
t. elster said:
Previously almost everyone received £30 a week.
This went a long way to provide many college students with beer and cigs.
They are look at a much smaller number of people who do actually need it for buying books/studying costs
As well as get them used to a life on welfare.This went a long way to provide many college students with beer and cigs.
They are look at a much smaller number of people who do actually need it for buying books/studying costs
Start them young on handouts and you'll have them gripped for life and willing to do whatever you tell them to do.
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