Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 9

[i4got]

glazbagun said:

I think it's curious how the mask thing polarises people. In the states it looks like it's becoming a partisan split, and likewise in Scotland. I wonder if it subconsciously ties into the whole face-covering thing that makes people so wary of the niqab and burka wearers, or if people just don't like being so directly told what to do.

My understanding was that masks wouldn't stop you catching it (unless they're n95 and single use, which still only removes one method of transmission) but as a measure to reduce transmission rates in enclosed spaces it certainly sounds intuitive and inconveniences me little, so I have no great issue with complying general non-conformist and grumbler though I am. I think it may be a bigger issue when it gets colder and you have people with CV & a cold spreading it everywhere. That's just unpleasant for everyone.

It does seem to be more of a contentious issue in Scotland and the US. Where I live some people wear them and some don't but its not really a contentious issue and I don't see any friction between the two groups.

[biggbn]

technodup said:

I've just been KB'd from Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

Sturgeon and her supine band of little Hitler's in full effect.

Nobody allowed in Halfords without one either. So what? Even if its a psychological sticking plaster and only makes some staff and customers feel safe, it will hopefully encourage more people out and into shops. Doesn't bother me one bit.

[hotchy]

biggbn said:

technodup said:

I've just been KB'd from Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

Sturgeon and her supine band of little Hitler's in full effect.

Nobody allowed in Halfords without one either. So what? Even if its a psychological sticking plaster and only makes some staff and customers feel safe, it will hopefully encourage more people out and into shops. Doesn't bother me one bit.

What about the medically exempt? They are being turned away now. Disgusting rule brought in.

[biggbn]

Ridgemont said:

hidetheelephants said:

ant1973 said:

biggbn said:

hutchst said:

Tories are Conservative politicians or occasionally, in a wider context, party members, across the UK.

Toarees are mythical bogeymen that exist in tbe minds of some Scottish politians, traditionally believed to inhabit a mythical faraway land called Westminster.

Agreed. It is a misappropriation of language, but why play their game. Debate like adults and make them look like the immature ones

Parody and satire can be a little cruel at times...

I'm pretty sure tory was created as a derogatory term for conservative, subsequently adopted by them, not unlike Fred Hoyle's coining of Big Bang as a derogatory term for a particular theory about the origin of the universe was subverted by everyone adopting it and using it in scientific literature.

Wrong way around. Fun fact: Tories were initially pro monarchists nicknamed after Irish Brigands.
It was only later that they adopted the moniker of conservatives under Disraeli.

This mirrors my understanding, Tories were originally outlaws (even supporters of Catholoicism in some cases!), the word basically means to pursue, and the word was appropriated as a term of abusive description suggesting those of a certain political bent were robbers and scoundrels ... And one wonders why Nicola and Co have (re) misappropriated it as a signifier of all that is wrong with their world!!

[Parsnip]

technodup said:

I've just been KB'd from Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

Sturgeon and her supine band of little Hitler's in full effect.

Can you not just pull your t-shirt over your nose?

[biggbn]

hotchy said:

A customer of mine just got turned away from asda and refused entry. He has COPD and a heart condition and cant wear a mask obviously. Didnt care asda wouldnt let him in.

Shop online? I have asthma and a heart condition and am over 50 and too bloody fat and I minimise my visits to public places where many do not observe even basic etiquette. I would suggest anyone with COPD and a heart condition should be shielding anyway?

[ant1973]

glazbagun said:

I think it's curious how the mask thing polarises people. In the states it looks like it's becoming a partisan split, and likewise in Scotland. I wonder if it subconsciously ties into the whole face-covering thing that makes people so wary of the niqab and burka wearers, or if people just don't like being so directly told what to do.

My understanding was that masks wouldn't stop you catching it (unless they're n95 and single use, which still only removes one method of transmission) but as a measure to reduce transmission rates in enclosed spaces it certainly sounds intuitive and inconveniences me little, so I have no great issue with complying general non-conformist and grumbler though I am. I think it may be a bigger issue when it gets colder and you have people with CV & a cold spreading it everywhere. That's just unpleasant for everyone.

If it works, I will do it. But I will not do it for the sake of it. If the SG having compelling evidence then why can we not see it?

When are the SNP turning their attention to land whales that cost the NHS so much money year in year out? That impacts on me in terms of taxes and is a similar matter of personal responsibility that has a clear basis in science.

[biggbn]

hotchy said:

biggbn said:

technodup said:

I've just been KB'd from Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

Sturgeon and her supine band of little Hitler's in full effect.

Nobody allowed in Halfords without one either. So what? Even if its a psychological sticking plaster and only makes some staff and customers feel safe, it will hopefully encourage more people out and into shops. Doesn't bother me one bit.

What about the medically exempt? They are being turned away now. Disgusting rule brought in.

If medically exempt to the kind of level you cant were a mask, should you be going in shops and risk picking up a disease that will likely kill you? I know its a contentious issue, I'm just trying to see all sides of it. There are options for those who cant wear a mask including delivery, which certainly in my area has been prompt and efficient.

[biggbn]

ant1973 said:

glazbagun said:

I think it's curious how the mask thing polarises people. In the states it looks like it's becoming a partisan split, and likewise in Scotland. I wonder if it subconsciously ties into the whole face-covering thing that makes people so wary of the niqab and burka wearers, or if people just don't like being so directly told what to do.

My understanding was that masks wouldn't stop you catching it (unless they're n95 and single use, which still only removes one method of transmission) but as a measure to reduce transmission rates in enclosed spaces it certainly sounds intuitive and inconveniences me little, so I have no great issue with complying general non-conformist and grumbler though I am. I think it may be a bigger issue when it gets colder and you have people with CV & a cold spreading it everywhere. That's just unpleasant for everyone.

If it works, I will do it. But I will not do it for the sake of it. If the SG having compelling evidence then why can we not see it?

When are the SNP turning their attention to land whales that cost the NHS so much money year in year out? That impacts on me in terms of taxes and is a similar matter of personal responsibility that has a clear basis in science.

As I understand the evidence suggesting it can stop the spread from one person to another is fairly compelling, and as many are asymptomatic, hell, i might be, im happy to comply. I appreciate others aren't

[i4got]

For those in Scotland - are masks on public transport being enforced in the same way that supermarkets seem to be?

[alangla]

biggbn said:

As I understand the evidence suggesting it can stop the spread from one person to another is fairly compelling, and as many are asymptomatic, hell, i might be, im happy to comply. I appreciate others aren't

The Scottish Government were describing the evidence as relatively weak and limited as late as yesterday. See for yourself https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/2020...

That’s the official archive copy of their website taken at 0941 yesterday morning, though that particular page is showing a capture time of 8th July at 1106

Edited by alangla on Friday 10th July 11:45

[Smokehead]

I've been waiting for the less salubrious of us to cotton on to the fact that now is a good time for various types of heists and raids on shops. Not that long ago we were asked to remove face coverings before entering certain shops.

[anonymous-user]

technodup said:

sambucket said:

Mask wearing ala Japan to manage illnes is clearly here to stay. Japan have seen for years that wearing masks to mitigate winter flu has great return on investment. That is clear to the west now, so masks are here forever.

Dream on.

A bad flu season is forecasted for UK this year, based on southern hemisphere.

I read one argument, that it probably add up to warrant wearing masks this year, if only to dampen down winter flu, given COVID is likely to place additional strain on the health system through the winter?

I'm not playing down the costs. But the upsides on 'protecting the NHS are substantial' and presumably SNP (and probably England I would guess) have done the sums and figures on balance it's worth it.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th July 11:52

[biggbn]

alangla said:

biggbn said:

As I understand the evidence suggesting it can stop the spread from one person to another is fairly compelling, and as many are asymptomatic, hell, i might be, im happy to comply. I appreciate others aren't

The Scottish Government were describing the evidence as relatively weak and limited as late as yesterday. See for yourself https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/2020...

That’s the official archive copy of their website taken at 0941 yesterday morning

Thanks for this, dangers of the internet I guess. I had read , God knows where now, that masks were not good for protecting a wearer from infection, but were very good for stopping someone from spreading infection? Another problem must be policing, not the wearing of masks itself but because of the wearing of masks . As I saod earlier, i was in a shop this morning with a bandana pulled up to just under eye level, looking for all the workd like a robber. Now, cctv would identify me in this area regardless, 34 years of running the doors round this area means I am 'a weel Kent face' to the police, but if I was an unknown baddie? Its gonna pose some problems.

[biggbn]

Smokehead said:

I've been waiting for the less salubrious of us to cotton on to the fact that now is a good time for various types of heists and raids on shops. Not that long ago we were asked to remove face coverings before entering certain shops.

Just posed similar? Now the question is, are we great minds of a similar bent, or fools in common agreement...

[biggbn]

alangla said:

biggbn said:

As I understand the evidence suggesting it can stop the spread from one person to another is fairly compelling, and as many are asymptomatic, hell, i might be, im happy to comply. I appreciate others aren't

The Scottish Government were describing the evidence as relatively weak and limited as late as yesterday. See for yourself https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/2020...

That’s the official archive copy of their website taken at 0941 yesterday morning, though that particular page is showing a capture time of 8th July at 1106

Edited by alangla on Friday 10th July 11:45

Thanks again, just read that and it pretty much says what I had thought. Compellimg was a poor choice of words by me earlier, common sense makes the mask wearing sound plausible.

[Edinburger]

ant1973 said:

Because masks are so worth it according to Swinney:-

"We are now in a situation where people have much more freedom but coronavirus is still in our community.

"There are still, we believe, about 1,000 people who are carrying the infection in Scottish society."

Pretty slim odds of meeting someone with the virus... What's that? Use them when the virus was more prevalent? That would be mental. What are you thinking...

I can't believe people are still complaining about wearing face coverings.

Japan had had less than 1,000 Covid deaths. They never went into full economic shutdown and have an unemployment rate of 2.6%. How did they do this? Virtually everyone wears a mask. Just like in many SE Asian countries.

[Edinburger]

wobert said:

Nipolean on the BBC comparing covering use to that of wearing seatbelts in cars....

... which is a perfect analogy.

Get used to wearing a mask in public places.

[Edinburger]

ant1973 said:

Because masks are so worth it according to Swinney:-

"We are now in a situation where people have much more freedom but coronavirus is still in our community.

"There are still, we believe, about 1,000 people who are carrying the infection in Scottish society."

Pretty slim odds of meeting someone with the virus... What's that? Use them when the virus was more prevalent? That would be mental. What are you thinking...

Why are you so against masks?

[Edinburger]

Leithen said:

Despite having been trailed a week ago and confirmed yesterday, there is still no detailed guidance regarding the mitigation required for 1m in Pubs. Apparently it might appear later today.

Two working days to implement before the 15th, unless you take the approach of fk it, here's our mitigation like it or not.

Bunch of fking incompetents.

Incompetents? Are you aware how Scottish deaths and transmissions are around a fifth of Englands? And yes, I mean England.

Airborne transmission of Covid is a big concern just now. The WHO are all over this. I read the safe social distancing could be as much as 15-20 metres.

Get used to this...