The Irish border
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
Borghetto said:
I agree, I think all the component parts of the UK should have a referendum as to whether they should remain part of the UK. I do include England as well. If ROI wants reunification and they can convince the North to vote for it, then we shouldn't get in the way - however, subsidies from England should stop forthwith - ditto Scotland and Wales. WTF should England always be the whipping boy - let's all vote on what we want and see how it all works out. If England is no longer sending billions to the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, perhaps we can concentrate on resourcing our own country and jettison the continuing whining from these independance movements.
Does that strange zone within the M25 count as a component part of the UK?loafer123 said:
SpeckledJim said:
loafer123 said:
To what extent will the Customs Union issue disappear if we have a comprehensive FTA?
Customs union, or single market?It seems to me that the Single Market issues are probably resolvable in the medium to long term with alignment of rules.
Mutual recognition of testing of standards, and off we go. Hardly like we're inexperienced in certifying goods to CE standards...
Sway said:
loafer123 said:
SpeckledJim said:
loafer123 said:
To what extent will the Customs Union issue disappear if we have a comprehensive FTA?
Customs union, or single market?It seems to me that the Single Market issues are probably resolvable in the medium to long term with alignment of rules.
Mutual recognition of testing of standards, and off we go. Hardly like we're inexperienced in certifying goods to CE standards...
Is the issue which is blocking a deal solved by a permanent FTA?
Sway said:
There aren't issues with leaving the SM. None.
Mutual recognition of testing of standards, and off we go. Hardly like we're inexperienced in certifying goods to CE standards...
But it’s the access that’s the issue isn’t it so no part of EU = not part of SM and therefore Tariffs applyMutual recognition of testing of standards, and off we go. Hardly like we're inexperienced in certifying goods to CE standards...
loafer123 said:
Sway said:
loafer123 said:
SpeckledJim said:
loafer123 said:
To what extent will the Customs Union issue disappear if we have a comprehensive FTA?
Customs union, or single market?It seems to me that the Single Market issues are probably resolvable in the medium to long term with alignment of rules.
Mutual recognition of testing of standards, and off we go. Hardly like we're inexperienced in certifying goods to CE standards...
Is the issue which is blocking a deal solved by a permanent FTA?
The only way to avoid customs entirely, is to be in a customs union.
Of course, some of us, with reasonable levels of experience with different approaches to managing customs controls, don't believe the imposition of customs controls on goods per se is the issue. Especially if agri/goao are retained in a common Island area/"partial customs union" - as movements across the Irish Sea already have additional checks and paperwork on them (as indeed can movements across a county line...).
Dr Jekyll said:
Borghetto said:
I agree, I think all the component parts of the UK should have a referendum as to whether they should remain part of the UK. I do include England as well. If ROI wants reunification and they can convince the North to vote for it, then we shouldn't get in the way - however, subsidies from England should stop forthwith - ditto Scotland and Wales. WTF should England always be the whipping boy - let's all vote on what we want and see how it all works out. If England is no longer sending billions to the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, perhaps we can concentrate on resourcing our own country and jettison the continuing whining from these independance movements.
Does that strange zone within the M25 count as a component part of the UK?Borghetto said:
I agree, I think all the component parts of the UK should have a referendum as to whether they should remain part of the UK. I do include England as well. If ROI wants reunification and they can convince the North to vote for it, then we shouldn't get in the way - however, subsidies from England should stop forthwith - ditto Scotland and Wales. WTF should England always be the whipping boy - let's all vote on what we want and see how it all works out. If England is no longer sending billions to the EU, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, perhaps we can concentrate on resourcing our own country and jettison the continuing whining from these independance movements.
Wow. Just, wow. Did you type that sober?Welshbeef said:
The Mad Monk said:
Saw this on Politics programme on BBC lunch time today. He seemed to think that opinion polls suggest now a majority of people in Northern Ireland would vote for union with the Republic.
As an Englishman living in England, I don't have a problem with that. Good idea, I say.
Is there an prospect of a referendum, call it what you will, on this in Northern Ireland?
No because of the £55billion debt they would inherit and the £5billion a year funding ROI would have to give N Ire off the bat. Plus EU states would then need to all pay in more as N Ireland wouldn’t be a contributor. As an Englishman living in England, I don't have a problem with that. Good idea, I say.
Is there an prospect of a referendum, call it what you will, on this in Northern Ireland?
So lots of £ money problems as a starter for ten.
mx5nut said:
XCP said:
What I find hard to believe, is that no-one foresaw this problem prior to the referendum. Anyone voting leave must have realised what a thorny issue this was going to create surely.
Plenty saw this coming.They were shouted down and called "project fear" by people who like to believe that complex solutions can be solved with slogans.
The dishonest Leave campaign lied about it.
Edited by mx5nut on Friday 4th October 19:28
I don't recall anyone discussing the Irish border before the referendum.
Edinburger said:
Welshbeef said:
The Mad Monk said:
Saw this on Politics programme on BBC lunch time today. He seemed to think that opinion polls suggest now a majority of people in Northern Ireland would vote for union with the Republic.
As an Englishman living in England, I don't have a problem with that. Good idea, I say.
Is there an prospect of a referendum, call it what you will, on this in Northern Ireland?
No because of the £55billion debt they would inherit and the £5billion a year funding ROI would have to give N Ire off the bat. Plus EU states would then need to all pay in more as N Ireland wouldn’t be a contributor. As an Englishman living in England, I don't have a problem with that. Good idea, I say.
Is there an prospect of a referendum, call it what you will, on this in Northern Ireland?
So lots of £ money problems as a starter for ten.
Scotland would be 9% Wales roughly 4.5%
Bringing this back to the subject, I do wonder why we are beating ourselves up over this.
We are quite content to keep the border open and probably to have an all-Ireland exemption to Customs for trade between Eire and NI.
If the EU want to make it more complicated than that, they need to solve their own problem and we will help where we can.
Welshbeef said:
Edinburger said:
Welshbeef said:
The Mad Monk said:
Saw this on Politics programme on BBC lunch time today. He seemed to think that opinion polls suggest now a majority of people in Northern Ireland would vote for union with the Republic.
As an Englishman living in England, I don't have a problem with that. Good idea, I say.
Is there an prospect of a referendum, call it what you will, on this in Northern Ireland?
No because of the £55billion debt they would inherit and the £5billion a year funding ROI would have to give N Ire off the bat. Plus EU states would then need to all pay in more as N Ireland wouldn’t be a contributor. As an Englishman living in England, I don't have a problem with that. Good idea, I say.
Is there an prospect of a referendum, call it what you will, on this in Northern Ireland?
So lots of £ money problems as a starter for ten.
Scotland would be 9% Wales roughly 4.5%
Lots of people are too young or too ignorant or don't care enough to remember The Troubles and why so many people are trying to avoid a return to conflict.
There's a series on BBC iPlayer called Spotlight on the Troubles: A Secret History which is an interesting watch and a stark reminder of the issues in the island of Ireland.
There's a series on BBC iPlayer called Spotlight on the Troubles: A Secret History which is an interesting watch and a stark reminder of the issues in the island of Ireland.
Edinburger said:
Lots of people are too young or too ignorant or don't care enough to remember The Troubles and why so many people are trying to avoid a return to conflict.
There's a series on BBC iPlayer called Spotlight on the Troubles: A Secret History which is an interesting watch and a stark reminder of the issues in the island of Ireland.
True and lots of British cannot comprehend why it’s no charge for any action against the U.K. and yet full charge for the British actions .... it has to be parity. There's a series on BBC iPlayer called Spotlight on the Troubles: A Secret History which is an interesting watch and a stark reminder of the issues in the island of Ireland.
Bloody Sunday was terrible
Omagh was terrible
Given this is a discussion forum why don’t Irish Nationalists see that both are equally as bad (though Omagh sadly had more people killed) instead just that Bloody Sunday cannot be forgiven... well I’d say the same for Omagh and those who carried out the actions on each occasion need to be taken to trial (not just Bloody Sunday BOTH doing just one forced further divides and raises questions about being equitable)
slow_poke said:
Because Omagh was carried out by murdering criminal scum that nobody expected any different from whilst Bloody Sunday was carried out by Crown Forces supposed to protect citizens, not shoot them down in the street like dogs?
Can you explain the reason why those murdering terrorists in Omagh cannot be put to trial yet the U.K. forces can and can in EVERY situation but the other side cannot?I remember not that long ago Kenneth Clarke was spitting feathers about this and how this very issue deepens divides into perpetuity.
Welshbeef said:
Can you explain the reason why those murdering terrorists in Omagh cannot be put to trial yet the U.K. forces can and can in EVERY situation but the other side cannot?
Lack of evidence mainly in regards to Omagh. Anyway are you suggesting that no one in the IRA was ever prosecuted or served time for their actions? It's difficult to find exact figures, but Republicans and Loyalists spent an estimated 100'000 years in total in prison before the GFA kicked in. The army were responsible for the deaths of 301 people, over half of whom were civilians. Take a guess how many were found guilty of murder?
Four (one conviction was later overturned) All four were freed after 5 years and all were allowed back in the army (!)
Don't believe everything you read in the press.
Edited by BugLebowski on Sunday 6th October 22:02
BugLebowski said:
Welshbeef said:
Can you explain the reason why those murdering terrorists in Omagh cannot be put to trial yet the U.K. forces can and can in EVERY situation but the other side cannot?
Lack of evidence mainly in regards to Omagh. Anyway are you suggesting that no one in the IRA was ever prosecuted or served time for their actions? It's difficult to find exact figures, but Republicans and Loyalists spent an estimated 100'000 years in total in prison before the GFA kicked in. The army were responsible for the deaths of 301 people, over half of whom were civilians. Take a guess how many were found guilty of murder?
Four (one conviction was later overturned) All four were freed after 5 years and all were allowed back in the army (!)
Don't believe everything you read in the press.
Edited by BugLebowski on Sunday 6th October 22:02
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