Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2
Discussion
I could imagine isaldiri coming with a peace of paper around 80 years ago - "peace in our time".
We should have just left Poland, as no one thought that defense agreement was actually a real one. There was loads of other wars around the world which if we helped out Poland then we'd be hypocrites if we didn't fix them all at once. It would also be unfair to supply Poland with any military supplies, as we weren't fighting and it would just involve them dying, and a few years later the public would get bored too. We'd also antagonized Germany, so it was also fair enough for them to do a little expansion and kill the Polish Nazis - sorry, Jews to protect the rest of the Polish people.
I'm not saying they should, just with millions of people in Russia seeing their family and friends killed, and their homeland be smashed to pieces it is surprising some don't take it into their own hands to get revenge.
We should have just left Poland, as no one thought that defense agreement was actually a real one. There was loads of other wars around the world which if we helped out Poland then we'd be hypocrites if we didn't fix them all at once. It would also be unfair to supply Poland with any military supplies, as we weren't fighting and it would just involve them dying, and a few years later the public would get bored too. We'd also antagonized Germany, so it was also fair enough for them to do a little expansion and kill the Polish Nazis - sorry, Jews to protect the rest of the Polish people.
BikeBikeBIke said:
NRS said:
I'm somewhat surprised we don't see more proper terrorism attacks in Russia, given the amount of Ukrainians there, rather than just military targets.
Utterly insane idea. Would simply fire the Russians up and maybe make mobilisation politically possible. (See the Mall Bombing this week and the Moscow Apartment bombings.)CrutyRammers said:
Actual lol:
The Russian Defense Ministry says that "today, as a step of goodwill, the Russian military has completed tasks on Zmiinyi (Snake) Island and has withdrew the garrison stationed there."
https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/154243141...
Is this like the goodwill when they retreated from Kyiv?The Russian Defense Ministry says that "today, as a step of goodwill, the Russian military has completed tasks on Zmiinyi (Snake) Island and has withdrew the garrison stationed there."
https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/154243141...
At this point it just had to be really, really good satire?
https://twitter.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1542184...
https://twitter.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1542184...
More Russian statement:
"This decision will not allow Kiev to speculate on the topic of the impending food crisis, referring to the impossibility of exporting grain due to Russia's total control of the northwestern part of the Black Sea...
Now the word is up to the Ukrainian side, which has not yet cleared the Black Sea coast near its shores, including the port waters [around Odesa]."
Does this mean Russia are going to allow grain exports?
"This decision will not allow Kiev to speculate on the topic of the impending food crisis, referring to the impossibility of exporting grain due to Russia's total control of the northwestern part of the Black Sea...
Now the word is up to the Ukrainian side, which has not yet cleared the Black Sea coast near its shores, including the port waters [around Odesa]."
Does this mean Russia are going to allow grain exports?
CrutyRammers said:
Actual lol:
The Russian Defense Ministry says that "today, as a step of goodwill, the Russian military has completed tasks on Zmiinyi (Snake) Island and has withdrew the garrison stationed there."
https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/154243141...
The Russian Defense Ministry says that "today, as a step of goodwill, the Russian military has completed tasks on Zmiinyi (Snake) Island and has withdrew the garrison stationed there."
https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/154243141...
"As a gesture of goodwill, we've pulled out of Ukraine.."
Edited by Jhonno on Thursday 30th June 10:24
vonuber said:
So your solution is... what? Let Russia occupy Ukraine? Take all of the Donbas, then shrug our shoulders and say business as usual?
I'm not suggesting a solution. I'm pointing out that the US might not continue to be quite as incentivised as some think to provide help to Ukraine at current levels to ensure 'a win' for Ukraine (especially because what constitutes a win is unclear and means quite different things to different parties) as compared to forcing some kind of resolution to drive the conflict out of sight and out of mind. It wouldn't be the first or the last time where the US has shrugged it's shoulders and let another country get dominated as a vassal state of a (more powerful) neighbour if they did. Either way it doesn't mean business as usual either as one presumes given the vast amount of money chucked at LNG (helpfully imported from the US amongst others) by Europe (although of course the germans are doing nothing supposedly) the supply of gas will be less dependent on Russia going forward although as a major commodity supplier, Russia is always going to have at least some impact on energy and other prices.
KarlMac said:
More likely that they'll say that they will allow exports, whilst stopping grain carriers, and then blame the Ukrainians for not exporting grain.
That's quite tricky to pull off.It's just weird, Russia didn't need Snake Island to blockade. So why appear to give the green light to grain exports at this point?
But if they *do* allow grain exports they have literally lost the only useful leverage they had because clearly gas/nukes hasn't worked.
I wonder if their media guy is just utterly useless or pissed?
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 30th June 10:42
BikeBikeBIke said:
I wonder if their media guy is just utterly useless or pissed?
There’s a reasonable chance that it’s both. I’m currently working on the assumption that whatever they say they mean the exact opposite. I haven’t even factored in the variable that they could be talking nonsense.
isaldiri said:
. It wouldn't be the first or the last time where the US has shrugged it's shoulders and let another country get dominated as a vassal state of a (more powerful) neighbour if they did.
Can you offer an example of another patently winnable war which cost zero US lives where a democratic country was taken over and the US didn't offer equipment?KarlMac said:
I’m currently working on the assumption that whatever they say they mean the exact opposite. I haven’t even factored in the variable that they could be talking nonsense.
Good point. It means nothing. Typical Russian propaganda - talk nonsense, change the story regularly. My bad for thinking about it.NRS said:
I could imagine isaldiri coming with a peace of paper around 80 years ago - "peace in our time".
We should have just left Poland, as no one thought that defense agreement was actually a real one. There was loads of other wars around the world which if we helped out Poland then we'd be hypocrites if we didn't fix them all at once. It would also be unfair to supply Poland with any military supplies, as we weren't fighting and it would just involve them dying, and a few years later the public would get bored too. We'd also antagonized Germany, so it was also fair enough for them to do a little expansion and kill the Polish Nazis - sorry, Jews to protect the rest of the Polish people.
And if Nazi Germany had made an utter hash of taking over the sudetenland/czech with an economy that's going to struggle to keep up continued military expenditure in 1938 and represented little to no meaningful threat to us, yes you could very well imagine quite a lot of the above and yes we might well have left Poland in 39 if that was the case... a lot of things are possible if one is imaginative.We should have just left Poland, as no one thought that defense agreement was actually a real one. There was loads of other wars around the world which if we helped out Poland then we'd be hypocrites if we didn't fix them all at once. It would also be unfair to supply Poland with any military supplies, as we weren't fighting and it would just involve them dying, and a few years later the public would get bored too. We'd also antagonized Germany, so it was also fair enough for them to do a little expansion and kill the Polish Nazis - sorry, Jews to protect the rest of the Polish people.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Can you offer an example of another patently winnable war which cost zero US lives where a democratic country was taken over and the US didn't offer equipment?
Patently winnable? how? what defines a win and in particular who defines that win? Ukraine seeks to retake all of the donbas and Crimea - is that a win or is it merely regaining Feb22 territory?
isaldiri said:
NRS said:
I could imagine isaldiri coming with a peace of paper around 80 years ago - "peace in our time".
We should have just left Poland, as no one thought that defense agreement was actually a real one. There was loads of other wars around the world which if we helped out Poland then we'd be hypocrites if we didn't fix them all at once. It would also be unfair to supply Poland with any military supplies, as we weren't fighting and it would just involve them dying, and a few years later the public would get bored too. We'd also antagonized Germany, so it was also fair enough for them to do a little expansion and kill the Polish Nazis - sorry, Jews to protect the rest of the Polish people.
And if Nazi Germany had made an utter hash of taking over the sudetenland/czech with an economy that's going to struggle to keep up continued military expenditure in 1938 and represented little to no meaningful threat to us, yes you could very well imagine quite a lot of the above and yes we might well have left Poland in 39 if that was the case...We should have just left Poland, as no one thought that defense agreement was actually a real one. There was loads of other wars around the world which if we helped out Poland then we'd be hypocrites if we didn't fix them all at once. It would also be unfair to supply Poland with any military supplies, as we weren't fighting and it would just involve them dying, and a few years later the public would get bored too. We'd also antagonized Germany, so it was also fair enough for them to do a little expansion and kill the Polish Nazis - sorry, Jews to protect the rest of the Polish people.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Can you offer an example of another patently winnable war which cost zero US lives where a democratic country was taken over and the US didn't offer equipment?
Patently winnable? how? what defines a win and in particular who defines that win? Ukraine seeks to retake all of the donbas and Crimea - is that a win or is it merely regaining Feb22 territory?
king arthur said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
Can you offer an example of another patently winnable war which cost zero US lives where a democratic country was taken over and the US didn't offer equipment?
I'm pretty sure I asked something similar before and never got a reply.For Russia....they are a pariah state, there army is getting smashed, there equipment is shown to be shoddy, there statergy shoddy and their enemy Nato just go bigger.
Ukraine long term wins back Crimea an offer areas gets to export its natural resources and gets inward investment from the west and one day joins Nato
KarlMac said:
At this point it just had to be really, really good satire?
https://twitter.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1542184...
Yes, that comedy-sized conference room amused me when it popped up on the morning news. Aside from looking like an entry for this week's "spot the Pootin" competition (even on a 65" TV, he was just a tiny speck off to ona side of the screen) it also had me thinking that he *really* must be overcompensating for something....https://twitter.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1542184...
BikeBikeBIke said:
KarlMac said:
More likely that they'll say that they will allow exports, whilst stopping grain carriers, and then blame the Ukrainians for not exporting grain.
That's quite tricky to pull off.It's just weird, Russia didn't need Snake Island to blockade. So why appear to give the green light to grain exports at this point?
But if they *do* allow grain exports they have literally lost the only useful leverage they had because clearly gas/nukes hasn't worked.
I wonder if their media guy is just utterly useless or pissed?
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 30th June 10:42
https://mailbd.net/news/armed-forces-of-ukraine-pu...
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