The Irish border
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Can you explain the reason why those murdering terrorists in Omagh cannot be put to trial yet the U.K. forces can and can in EVERY situation but the other side cannot?
I remember not that long ago Kenneth Clarke was spitting feathers about this and how this very issue deepens divides into perpetuity.
Because we hold our armed forces to different standards to terrorist organisations?I remember not that long ago Kenneth Clarke was spitting feathers about this and how this very issue deepens divides into perpetuity.
Welshbeef said:
Can you explain the reason why those murdering terrorists in Omagh cannot be put to trial yet the U.K. forces can and can in EVERY situation but the other side cannot?
I remember not that long ago Kenneth Clarke was spitting feathers about this and how this very issue deepens divides into perpetuity.
The security services on both sides of the border cannot allow the truth to come out. Omagh was allowed to happen, plain and simple. It effectively ended the so called dissidents campaign.I remember not that long ago Kenneth Clarke was spitting feathers about this and how this very issue deepens divides into perpetuity.
i4got said:
Because we hold our armed forces to different standards to terrorist organisations?
So even though they killed 3000+ they cannot be convicted. That’s more than Al Qaida murdered in the twin towers.
I’m not sure how prosecuting one side only and not touching the other following the GFA is anything but divisive
Welshbeef said:
So even though they killed 3000+ they cannot be convicted.
That’s more than Al Qaida murdered in the twin towers.
I’m not sure how prosecuting one side only and not touching the other following the GFA is anything but divisive
I suspect you'll believe whatever you want to believe but you're simply wrong. That’s more than Al Qaida murdered in the twin towers.
I’m not sure how prosecuting one side only and not touching the other following the GFA is anything but divisive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-388...
BBC said:
The police legacy branch will re-investigate 1,188 deaths not previously reviewed or completed by the now defunct Historical Enquiries Team (HET).
Of those killings, 530 were carried out by republicans, 271 by loyalists and 354 by the security forces.
Welshbeef said:
i4got said:
Because we hold our armed forces to different standards to terrorist organisations?
So even though they killed 3000+ they cannot be convicted. That’s more than Al Qaida murdered in the twin towers.
I’m not sure how prosecuting one side only and not touching the other following the GFA is anything but divisive
JuniorD said:
Welshbeef said:
i4got said:
Because we hold our armed forces to different standards to terrorist organisations?
So even though they killed 3000+ they cannot be convicted. That’s more than Al Qaida murdered in the twin towers.
I’m not sure how prosecuting one side only and not touching the other following the GFA is anything but divisive
That is most important.
Unionists may well have felt under siege, with UDR, RUC and prison officers (mostly Protestant) being targeted. They may have felt let down by the UK government. But they ended up setting fire to their own principles.
Disappointed that victims’ campaigner Willie Frazer could have been so intimately involved with arming loyalist paramilitaries: Mandy McAuley names Frazer as Johnny Adair’s main contact for accessing Ulster Resistance weapons. His involvement makes a mockery of his funeral epitaph of being a “forthright advocate for the victims of republican violence”. There’s nothing forthright in helping arm paramilitaries who will kill your enemies under the nose of the police and security services.
Disappointed with a senior DUP figure, now MP for East Antrim, wearing a city council mayoral chain on the Ulster Hall platform at the launch of Ulster Resistance, while warning people to “keep vigilance” against anyone using a camera or tape recorder, and saying that the meeting was “here this evening to mobilise and pledge ourselves to prepare to withstand the force which is going to be used against us”.
Disappointed with Peter Robinson’s attempt to put a paper-thin airgap between those on the platform (Paisley, Wilson, Robinson, etc) who were happy to wear military-style berets and those who would supply and use arms, saying “none of the speakers here this evening is a commander of this body, we are satisfied knowing as we do those who are, that they are in earnest and will do nothing to engage the displeasure and judgement of God, the dissatisfaction of our people, or bring dishonour to our great cause”. I think Robinson may have failed on all three fronts.
Disappointed with Ian Paisley, a Christian minister and political leader, for being willing to promise “to give this movement [Ulster Resistance] my undivided support. I will give it whatever political cover it needs”. That’s a statement we might have expected to hear Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness make as Sinn Féin representatives speaking about the IRA, but not from so-called leaders ‘loyal’ to the crown. Though those representing the crown have questions to answer too …
Disappointed with so many unionists for swallowing this poor leadership for so long. Like McGuinness, Robinson and Wilson may have changed, but he still has questions to answer.
Within weeks of the Ulster Hall rally, Ulster Resistance began searching for weapons. Seemingly, not an organisation out of control, but one acting out their strategy of becoming a firm deterrent, given the lack of the distance the DUP figures have ever put between themselves and the movement.
The programme accuses Noel Little of sourcing arms, a shipment that in 1987 was split three ways between the UDA (immediately intercepted), UVF (lost a short time later) and Ulster Resistance, whose stash of automatic rifles, grenades, rocket launchers were not stored up in case of some doomsday scenario but were shared with the other organisations and can be tied back to murders including Michael Stone’s Milltown cemetery attack.
The programme also discusses the murder of solicitor Pat Finucane, the actions of informer Brian Nelson (not the only agent being run by the army’s Field Research Unit), and hears testimony from respected journalist Chris Moore who saw evidence of collusion as loyalist paramilitaries shared information from military intelligence files on potential republican targets.
The programme segment looking at collusion inquiries is also unsettling, though unsurprising.
An unexplained fire in the office of the Stevens Inquiry on the eve of arresting Brian Nelson.
The Stevens Inquiry discovering that all but two of those they arrested were ‘touts’ working for one or more security agency. The programme makers estimate that the army ran around 500 republican agents.
MI5 turning up at Judge Cory’s collusion inquiry offices and removing and wiping clean the hard drives of the computers “in the interests of national security” … though the original files had been printed out for backup.
More questions to be answered from those who should have acted with integrity rather than impunity.
Spotlight will be screened at 9pm on BBC One NI and BBC Four.
Disappointed that victims’ campaigner Willie Frazer could have been so intimately involved with arming loyalist paramilitaries: Mandy McAuley names Frazer as Johnny Adair’s main contact for accessing Ulster Resistance weapons. His involvement makes a mockery of his funeral epitaph of being a “forthright advocate for the victims of republican violence”. There’s nothing forthright in helping arm paramilitaries who will kill your enemies under the nose of the police and security services.
Disappointed with a senior DUP figure, now MP for East Antrim, wearing a city council mayoral chain on the Ulster Hall platform at the launch of Ulster Resistance, while warning people to “keep vigilance” against anyone using a camera or tape recorder, and saying that the meeting was “here this evening to mobilise and pledge ourselves to prepare to withstand the force which is going to be used against us”.
Disappointed with Peter Robinson’s attempt to put a paper-thin airgap between those on the platform (Paisley, Wilson, Robinson, etc) who were happy to wear military-style berets and those who would supply and use arms, saying “none of the speakers here this evening is a commander of this body, we are satisfied knowing as we do those who are, that they are in earnest and will do nothing to engage the displeasure and judgement of God, the dissatisfaction of our people, or bring dishonour to our great cause”. I think Robinson may have failed on all three fronts.
Disappointed with Ian Paisley, a Christian minister and political leader, for being willing to promise “to give this movement [Ulster Resistance] my undivided support. I will give it whatever political cover it needs”. That’s a statement we might have expected to hear Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness make as Sinn Féin representatives speaking about the IRA, but not from so-called leaders ‘loyal’ to the crown. Though those representing the crown have questions to answer too …
Disappointed with so many unionists for swallowing this poor leadership for so long. Like McGuinness, Robinson and Wilson may have changed, but he still has questions to answer.
Within weeks of the Ulster Hall rally, Ulster Resistance began searching for weapons. Seemingly, not an organisation out of control, but one acting out their strategy of becoming a firm deterrent, given the lack of the distance the DUP figures have ever put between themselves and the movement.
The programme accuses Noel Little of sourcing arms, a shipment that in 1987 was split three ways between the UDA (immediately intercepted), UVF (lost a short time later) and Ulster Resistance, whose stash of automatic rifles, grenades, rocket launchers were not stored up in case of some doomsday scenario but were shared with the other organisations and can be tied back to murders including Michael Stone’s Milltown cemetery attack.
The programme also discusses the murder of solicitor Pat Finucane, the actions of informer Brian Nelson (not the only agent being run by the army’s Field Research Unit), and hears testimony from respected journalist Chris Moore who saw evidence of collusion as loyalist paramilitaries shared information from military intelligence files on potential republican targets.
The programme segment looking at collusion inquiries is also unsettling, though unsurprising.
An unexplained fire in the office of the Stevens Inquiry on the eve of arresting Brian Nelson.
The Stevens Inquiry discovering that all but two of those they arrested were ‘touts’ working for one or more security agency. The programme makers estimate that the army ran around 500 republican agents.
MI5 turning up at Judge Cory’s collusion inquiry offices and removing and wiping clean the hard drives of the computers “in the interests of national security” … though the original files had been printed out for backup.
More questions to be answered from those who should have acted with integrity rather than impunity.
Spotlight will be screened at 9pm on BBC One NI and BBC Four.
Ayahuasca said:
I called it a while ago. Boris has thrown the DUP under the bus. Probably the best place for them. He is good at buses.
In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
What bus have they gone under? The deal looks pretty good for them? In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
SpeckledJim said:
Ayahuasca said:
I called it a while ago. Boris has thrown the DUP under the bus. Probably the best place for them. He is good at buses.
In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
What bus have they gone under? The deal looks pretty good for them? In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
In what way?!
The UNIONISTS being cut out of the UNION by a border between two parts of the same country they feel they are a part of?
p1stonhead said:
SpeckledJim said:
Ayahuasca said:
I called it a while ago. Boris has thrown the DUP under the bus. Probably the best place for them. He is good at buses.
In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
What bus have they gone under? The deal looks pretty good for them? In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
In what way?!
The UNIONISTS being cut out of the UNION by a border between two parts of the same country they feel they are a part of?
What 'border'? The one that only really exists on the paperwork of the very few people engaged in the logistics of exports and imports?
Have felt like this would be the next proposed step for a while, and it's what the majority in NI want from what I can tell too. Not sure even the DUP will disagree with that point ,even though it's obviously not what they're looking for
Don't believe there'll be a united Ireland in my lifetime though, as not enough desire for it here in RoI
Don't believe there'll be a united Ireland in my lifetime though, as not enough desire for it here in RoI
SpeckledJim said:
p1stonhead said:
SpeckledJim said:
Ayahuasca said:
I called it a while ago. Boris has thrown the DUP under the bus. Probably the best place for them. He is good at buses.
In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
What bus have they gone under? The deal looks pretty good for them? In a couple of generations there will be a united Ireland and Varadkar will claim in his memoirs that that is what he wanted all along.
Not a bad thing really.
In what way?!
The UNIONISTS being cut out of the UNION by a border between two parts of the same country they feel they are a part of?
What 'border'? The one that only really exists on the paperwork of the very few people engaged in the logistics of exports and imports?
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