Discussion
pork911 said:
It was a joke. However I remain amazed given the sustained performance of the Tories in recent memory that labour are not just lauded by the masses but that there aren't millions of red rose lapelled pitchfork carrying citizens descending on London. I have no particular party home but the goal couldn't be more open and the opposition often can't even seem to see it. Labour may well win the general election but it feels like even they won't be entirely sure what they stood for. They aren't even doing 'not tory' well.
Agree totally.Were it that UK politics were a bit less partisan and binary. I fear we’re tending toward the US style for the worse.
In no way shape or form do the Conservatives deserve anything other than utter punishment at the next GE. Yet, as you say, it would be far more appealing if Labour were actually more deserving of a victory.
A huge number of voters want a palatable (non single-issue fringe) progressive alternative.
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
cgt2 said:
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre
It depends upon "the issue". Most people probably hover very closely around the middle.
People appear to have a tendency to move to the right on finance matters when they have accumulated some money and want to pull up the drawbridge.
MC Bodge said:
cgt2 said:
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre
It depends upon "the issue". Most people probably hover very closely around the middle.
People appear to have a tendency to move to the right on finance matters when they have accumulated some money and want to pull up the drawbridge.
For example, even in those of a generally very left wing disposition, you will find intolerance of some or all of those and, conversely, someone could be pretty died in the wool Tory and fiercely proud and progressive on all those fronts.
Hard and unnecessary to pigeon hole people.
Digga said:
768 said:
MC Bodge said:
The use of the phrase says more about the person using it than the target - they just cannot understand that other people don't think like they do.
Whereas you understand that other people think differently, but you want it banned? 
In political terms, it can help with industrial relations to be seen to vote Labour. People may vote how they like, but when it’s overt - in the media - you always have to look for motives. Unless you’re incredibly naive.
Virtue signalling is and has always been a thing.
2015 was the exception, not the rule.
In consequence, we get what we get. But what you see as virtue signalling is oftentimes the majority consensus in the country.
It is why no Conservative government will ever support proper PR; they fear they’d never again hold power!
skwdenyer said:
What you need to grasp is that there’s usually a liberal (small l) majority in this country. But we have an electoral system that rewards the largest party, not the basic gist of the electorate.
2015 was the exception, not the rule.
In consequence, we get what we get. But what you see as virtue signalling is oftentimes the majority consensus in the country.
It is why no Conservative government will ever support proper PR; they fear they’d never again hold power!
Well. I ought to be specific about the virtue signalling comment.2015 was the exception, not the rule.
In consequence, we get what we get. But what you see as virtue signalling is oftentimes the majority consensus in the country.
It is why no Conservative government will ever support proper PR; they fear they’d never again hold power!
Yes, I think the majority will agree on a broad number of progressive issues. IMHO expressing opinion(s) on such are not virtue signaling.
However, where there is any element of hypocrisy involved, then it is pure, simple and nothing more than virtue signaling. The psychopath manager espousing mental health, for example, or the person slapping themselves on the back for having an electric car when they take four long haul holidays a year…
On your last point, UK politics overall need to be changed. I’d actually like a de-politicised management of core services. There could and should be consensus on public services and the welfare state. In this day and age, those could be voted for electronically. Totally separate and independent of political intervention.
Blackpuddin said:
In the council elections Libs + Greens + Others had 39% of vote, beating Lab on 35%.
Our local only had Con, Lab, Green.As much as I am not a climate change denier and as much as I do love nature, I could not quite bring myself to vote Green. Did not even consider Tory, given the clusterf
ks of both local and national incumbents.Digga said:
On your last point, UK politics overall need to be changed. I’d actually like a de-politicised management of core services. There could and should be consensus on public services and the welfare state. In this day and age, those could be voted for electronically. Totally separate and independent of political intervention.
.... and totally separate to how it's paid for?? Or does everyone get an electronic vote on taxes to?I'm fairly sure I know where that consensus is going to end up!!
GT03ROB said:
Digga said:
On your last point, UK politics overall need to be changed. I’d actually like a de-politicised management of core services. There could and should be consensus on public services and the welfare state. In this day and age, those could be voted for electronically. Totally separate and independent of political intervention.
.... and totally separate to how it's paid for?? Or does everyone get an electronic vote on taxes to?I'm fairly sure I know where that consensus is going to end up!!
At present, there's no democratic voice for public services.
The bien pensants can sit in their ivory (Islington) towers blissfully ignorant of how, for example, people in Halewood want better policing, or people in Stoke want better hospital care.
cgt2 said:
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
Agree completely The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
S600BSB said:
cgt2 said:
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
Agree completely The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
https://leadership.ng/archbishop-of-canterbury-jus...
Blackpuddin said:
S600BSB said:
cgt2 said:
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
Agree completely The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
https://leadership.ng/archbishop-of-canterbury-jus...
Blackpuddin said:
S600BSB said:
cgt2 said:
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
Agree completely The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
https://leadership.ng/archbishop-of-canterbury-jus...
GT03ROB said:
Digga said:
On your last point, UK politics overall need to be changed. I’d actually like a de-politicised management of core services. There could and should be consensus on public services and the welfare state. In this day and age, those could be voted for electronically. Totally separate and independent of political intervention.
.... and totally separate to how it's paid for?? Or does everyone get an electronic vote on taxes to?I'm fairly sure I know where that consensus is going to end up!!
So politicians set out, for example, how much they're prepared to fund the NHS to the tune of...we can vote for the ones with the splits we prefer... And then that money is handed over to the decoupled, perhaps even with cross party oversight, administration that runs it.
MC Bodge said:
cgt2 said:
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre
It depends upon "the issue". Most people probably hover very closely around the middle.
People appear to have a tendency to move to the right on finance matters when they have accumulated some money and want to pull up the drawbridge.
I'm happy for anyone to go out and accumulate a bit of money, but not to rifle around in my pockets for it!
Digga said:
Blackpuddin said:
S600BSB said:
cgt2 said:
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
Agree completely The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
https://leadership.ng/archbishop-of-canterbury-jus...
smn159 said:
Blackpuddin said:
S600BSB said:
cgt2 said:
The extreme divides are largely on the fringes, right and left.
The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
Agree completely The vast majority of voters are maybe just a tad bit right of centre but this far right dog-whistle extremist rhetoric the present government is dominated by is far more unpalatable to most people than anything from Labour hence why for many the next election will be a case of voting for the least worst.
I mean when you have the Archbishop of Canterbury on your case over basic decency and morality and yet still think you're on the right track, in a nutshell that shows how out of touch the Tory Party is today.
https://leadership.ng/archbishop-of-canterbury-jus...
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