So what now for the Labour party?
Discussion
MX6 said:
They all seem to want to try to play the game of playing down their backgrounds. Thornberry was on R4 this morning saying that she grew up living in a council house and that she had a single mother on benefits. That may well have been true at some point, but wiki says that her mother was a teacher and her father become assistant secretary general at the UN, so perhaps not such a humble background as she was trying to make out...
You carnnt make up s
t like thaaat abaat 'er. She'll 'av you in court!(She actually grew up in a privy council house)
alfaspecial said:
The PLP & membership are important - but not at the expense of the interests of potential voters. Look at the map of MPs - by far the majority - outside of big conurbations & Scotland etc - are blue.
You are probably right in your last sentence. perceived xenophobia but this "perceived xenophobia" was, perhaps, a reflection of the way millions felt - undercut in wages / out-priced in housing / hospital waiting lists
The Labour Party was responsible for the large spike in immigration - it's voters (distinct from members or PLP) reacted to this.
I think, back in 1975, Labour opponents of the Common Market warned of these dangers (Tony Benn ) BUT the PLP, now a middle class rather than working class, chose their path to follow.
Until they can reconnect with their traditional power base they are toast.
The disconnect between the concerns of Labour activists and of Labour voters is nothing new, though. People in post industrial Northern towns mostly weren't voting Labour out of concern for one-legged lesbians or a desire for foreign policy to constrain American geopolitical hegemony. They simply thought Labour was the party which would look after their interests. You are probably right in your last sentence. perceived xenophobia but this "perceived xenophobia" was, perhaps, a reflection of the way millions felt - undercut in wages / out-priced in housing / hospital waiting lists
The Labour Party was responsible for the large spike in immigration - it's voters (distinct from members or PLP) reacted to this.
I think, back in 1975, Labour opponents of the Common Market warned of these dangers (Tony Benn ) BUT the PLP, now a middle class rather than working class, chose their path to follow.
Until they can reconnect with their traditional power base they are toast.
What happened with Brexit was that the party's desire to be progressive on immigration fell into conflict with the perceived self-interest of traditional Labour voters. The party either had to swallow its principles or appoint someone capable of leadership and of making and winning the argument. It did neither.
Camoradi said:
MX6 said:
They all seem to want to try to play the game of playing down their backgrounds. Thornberry was on R4 this morning saying that she grew up living in a council house and that she had a single mother on benefits. That may well have been true at some point, but wiki says that her mother was a teacher and her father become assistant secretary general at the UN, so perhaps not such a humble background as she was trying to make out...
You carnnt make up st like thaaat abaat 'er. She'll 'av you in court!(She actually grew up in a privy council house)
Edited by MX6 on Thursday 19th December 11:32
Camoradi said:
MX6 said:
They all seem to want to try to play the game of playing down their backgrounds. Thornberry was on R4 this morning saying that she grew up living in a council house and that she had a single mother on benefits. That may well have been true at some point, but wiki says that her mother was a teacher and her father become assistant secretary general at the UN, so perhaps not such a humble background as she was trying to make out...
You carnnt make up st like thaaat abaat 'er. She'll 'av you in court!(She actually grew up in a privy council house)
MX6 said:
They all seem to want to try to play the game of playing down their backgrounds. Thornberry was on R4 this morning saying that she grew up living in a council house and that she had a single mother on benefits. That may well have been true at some point, but wiki says that her mother was a teacher and her father become assistant secretary general at the UN, so perhaps not such a humble background as she was trying to make out...
You've said it may have been true at some point. Another way of saying that is that it may well be true. CaptainSlow said:
B'stard Child said:
In comparison the Conservatives offered very similar things but you knew they were just going to continue to bicker about European treaties
Much better to ignore the discussion for another 20 years.
MX6 said:
They all seem to want to try to play the game of playing down their backgrounds. Thornberry was on R4 this morning saying that she grew up living in a council house and that she had a single mother on benefits. That may well have been true at some point, but wiki says that her mother was a teacher and her father become assistant secretary general at the UN, so perhaps not such a humble background as she was trying to make out...
Ahh yes living in a council house and a single mother on benefits that really would mean you had some understanding and maybe a little empathy 
or not
Serious question, can Boris Johnson with his majority now actually legislate for Labour to be disbanded and considered too extremist for our country? What would it take and might it actually be a good thing?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
booboise blueboys said:
Serious question, can Boris Johnson with his majority now actually legislate for Labour to be disbanded and considered too extremist for our country? What would it take and might it actually be a good thing?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
You are a very funny "individual" (Gender neutral option selected as I've no wish to repeat JK Rowling's mistake)
B'stard Child said:
CaptainSlow said:
B'stard Child said:
In comparison the Conservatives offered very similar things but you knew they were just going to continue to bicker about European treaties
Much better to ignore the discussion for another 20 years.booboise blueboys said:
Serious question, can Boris Johnson with his majority now actually legislate for Labour to be disbanded and considered too extremist for our country? What would it take and might it actually be a good thing?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
Political parties of any persuasion no matter how extreme need to be defeated at the ballot box, not by a totalitarian state intent on vanquishing all opposition. It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
Surely your not so partisan that you wish to silence the official opposition party of this country? I think you should be content with the large Tory majority govenrnment that we now have. Labour need to reform, to better reflect the views of the working class population of the country that they purport to represent, not be forcibly disbanded.
MX6 said:
booboise blueboys said:
Serious question, can Boris Johnson with his majority now actually legislate for Labour to be disbanded and considered too extremist for our country? What would it take and might it actually be a good thing?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
Political parties of any persuasion no matter how extreme need to be defeated at the ballot box, not by a totalitarian state intent on vanquishing all opposition. It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
Surely your not so partisan that you wish to silence the official opposition party of this country? I think you should be content with the large Tory majority govenrnment that we now have. Labour need to reform, to better reflect the views of the working class population of the country that they purport to represent, not be forcibly disbanded.
B'stard Child said:
MX6 said:
booboise blueboys said:
Serious question, can Boris Johnson with his majority now actually legislate for Labour to be disbanded and considered too extremist for our country? What would it take and might it actually be a good thing?
It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
Political parties of any persuasion no matter how extreme need to be defeated at the ballot box, not by a totalitarian state intent on vanquishing all opposition. It feels to me like something which would be good for the country. They shouldn't be able to get away with complaining in th HoC when the country has clearly demonstrated they don't want them. The existing Labour MPs would then have to become independents and the Labour movement can be stopped in its tracks for good?
Surely your not so partisan that you wish to silence the official opposition party of this country? I think you should be content with the large Tory majority govenrnment that we now have. Labour need to reform, to better reflect the views of the working class population of the country that they purport to represent, not be forcibly disbanded.
otolith said:
Because a substantial part of the party, both PLP and membership, rightly or wrongly felt that there could be no such thing - that any Brexit was a disaster for the ordinary people of the country and that trying to mitigate the harm by surrendering democratic control of things like worker's rights to an EU we no longer had a say in was a perverse way of taking back control. Fundamentally, I think a large chunk of the Labour Party thought that the only reason for Brexit was xenophobia and that they could not live with getting behind that.
Why did they trigger a50 then? Why did Corbyn say he would respect the result?
Dishonesty from the party and leadership and lack of realism in your post
jakesmith said:
Why did they trigger a50 then?
Why did Corbyn say he would respect the result?
Dishonesty from the party and leadership and lack of realism in your post
Corbyn held the most Upright position on the Eu, one of reform and a true socialist development.Why did Corbyn say he would respect the result?
Dishonesty from the party and leadership and lack of realism in your post
He has always said it should be more Socialist and has always worked with the leaders of the Eu's Socialist governments for such reforms.
Like all the best socialist leaders over time he has always waited for the people to speak, that has been taken away from us "the people" by the dirty money and underhand actions of the capitalist system.
With Corbyn and Abbot coming together to explode the new lies about "No climate change", his political strength will come out on top.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Friday 20th December 09:51
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