CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)

[Alucidnation]

Boringvolvodriver said:

We must keep resisting the temptation! Please.

Temptation for what?

[Nickgnome]

basherX said:

Nickgnome said:

It may not be necessary but have you discussed this with them or are you just projecting your view?

I see very few here but when working in London a decade ago I regularly saw tourist from the Far East wearing masks all the time. It was extremely common.

My GF here is a language teacher and her S Korean student said it is considered mannerly to wear a mask if infected even with a cold.

Different mindset.

BTW I worked for Intel and guess what we had to wear in the Clean Room all day long?

Plenty of people wear a face covering when skiing in cold conditions.

Yes. With many. And I see the effect on my daughter, nieces and nephews every day.

You’re the guy the doesn’t live in the U.K. but seems to be something of an authority on the situation, right?

Wrong, I live in two locations and am currently here in the UK so have gone through the whole travel pre flight PCR, locator form, day 2 and Day 8 test with Day 5 Test to release procedure.

Like everything it's a state of mind. Negativity is infectious. I see daily a completely different, more positive, outlook from my Daughter, and Granddaughter.

[NerveAgent]

MikeT66 said:

There are a few studies that suggest that many in former communist countries actually preferred living under repressive regimes. The 'state' took away much of the decision-making and kept things predictable and staid, and if the cost was some autonomy then it seemed to be worth it, for some. The there are various religions around that have similar strict regimes, curtailing a lot of 'outside' social interaction, strict rules and devolvement of responsibility - again, well supported and followed.

I think of it more a 'cult' (and honestly not using that term to intentionally disparage anyone). Followers have found some small and manageable drama in humdrum lives, a feeling that they are part of something much larger than their small existence. Really, it's not actually their fault - a void left behind by the loss of religion, an ever-detached governmental and parliamentary process, and community cohesion has left many seeking something to fill that hole, I think. This isn't quite a war, but many are finding comfort in a uniform behaviour, strict patterns of living to adhere to and boundaries to stick to (even if those boundaries shift and become incredibly blurred at times). That's why I think it is now a battle for hearts and minds - people need to see that they do not have small, mentally-impoverished lives, that they are indeed already part of something important - we do not need a heavy-handed government to see that. I remain hopeful that the eons we spent as social beings will win out in the end and reject the new impositions on our lives.

Great summary, this closely matches my thoughts.

Interestingly, I think the way out of it is actually going to be nationalistic comparisons, same as the vaccine. I think we are already seeing a few "well they are opening this before us" type stories.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Alucidnation said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

We must keep resisting the temptation! Please.

Temptation for what?

Work it out for yourself!

[Rollin]

MikeT66 said:

There are a few studies that suggest that many in former communist countries actually preferred living under repressive regimes. The 'state' took away much of the decision-making and kept things predictable and staid, and if the cost was some autonomy then it seemed to be worth it, for some. The there are various religions around that have similar strict regimes, curtailing a lot of 'outside' social interaction, strict rules and devolvement of responsibility - again, well supported and followed.

I think of it more a 'cult' (and honestly not using that term to intentionally disparage anyone). Followers have found some small and manageable drama in humdrum lives, a feeling that they are part of something much larger than their small existence. Really, it's not actually their fault - a void left behind by the loss of religion, an ever-detached governmental and parliamentary process, and community cohesion has left many seeking something to fill that hole, I think. This isn't quite a war, but many are finding comfort in a uniform behaviour, strict patterns of living to adhere to and boundaries to stick to (even if those boundaries shift and become incredibly blurred at times). That's why I think it is now a battle for hearts and minds - people need to see that they do not have small, mentally-impoverished lives, that they are indeed already part of something important - we do not need a heavy-handed government to see that. I remain hopeful that the eons we spent as social beings will win out in the end and reject the new impositions on our lives.

Describes the tin hats on here to a tee.

[tannhauser]

Alucidnation said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

We must keep resisting the temptation! Please.

Temptation for what?

Responding to bedwetters like yourself.

[anonymoususer]

77th Brigade said:

anonymoususer said:

I use a nasal spray for Hayfever
Least I think it's hayfever as it seems the symptons are identical to covid
But anyway I have never caught Covid. I can sell people some spray if they want

Beconase steroidal spray in an aqueous solution?

Its actually called Budesonide Aqueous Nasal Spray so it may well be what you describe

garyhun said:

anonymoususer said:

I use a nasal spray for Hayfever
Least I think it's hayfever as it seems the symptons are identical to covid
But anyway I have never caught Covid. I can sell people some spray if they want

I’ve not been wearing a mask for months and not caught Covid either. I can advise not wearing a mask - it’s cheaper than your nasal spray too!

Ah but would the mask prevent my Hay Fever.
I feel I shall just persevere using my nasal spray by sticking it in altenate nostrils
My tongue will remain in my cheek.

Oh and with a new PLUS variant my wife wonders if the next one will be a GL/ Deluxe/ or even Ghia variant

[Ntv]

Rollin said:

MikeT66 said:

There are a few studies that suggest that many in former communist countries actually preferred living under repressive regimes. The 'state' took away much of the decision-making and kept things predictable and staid, and if the cost was some autonomy then it seemed to be worth it, for some. The there are various religions around that have similar strict regimes, curtailing a lot of 'outside' social interaction, strict rules and devolvement of responsibility - again, well supported and followed.

I think of it more a 'cult' (and honestly not using that term to intentionally disparage anyone). Followers have found some small and manageable drama in humdrum lives, a feeling that they are part of something much larger than their small existence. Really, it's not actually their fault - a void left behind by the loss of religion, an ever-detached governmental and parliamentary process, and community cohesion has left many seeking something to fill that hole, I think. This isn't quite a war, but many are finding comfort in a uniform behaviour, strict patterns of living to adhere to and boundaries to stick to (even if those boundaries shift and become incredibly blurred at times). That's why I think it is now a battle for hearts and minds - people need to see that they do not have small, mentally-impoverished lives, that they are indeed already part of something important - we do not need a heavy-handed government to see that. I remain hopeful that the eons we spent as social beings will win out in the end and reject the new impositions on our lives.

Describes the tin hats on here to a tee.

When you say "tin hats" I assume you mean those supporting ongoing restrictions and imposing an unprecedented cost for a virus that's killed 0.8% of the elderly over 18 months?

Events have made it harder to discern which "side" is being disparaged as "mad", "conspiratorial", "tin foil" etc etc.

[R Mutt]

Rollin said:

MikeT66 said:

There are a few studies that suggest that many in former communist countries actually preferred living under repressive regimes. The 'state' took away much of the decision-making and kept things predictable and staid, and if the cost was some autonomy then it seemed to be worth it, for some. The there are various religions around that have similar strict regimes, curtailing a lot of 'outside' social interaction, strict rules and devolvement of responsibility - again, well supported and followed.

I think of it more a 'cult' (and honestly not using that term to intentionally disparage anyone). Followers have found some small and manageable drama in humdrum lives, a feeling that they are part of something much larger than their small existence. Really, it's not actually their fault - a void left behind by the loss of religion, an ever-detached governmental and parliamentary process, and community cohesion has left many seeking something to fill that hole, I think. This isn't quite a war, but many are finding comfort in a uniform behaviour, strict patterns of living to adhere to and boundaries to stick to (even if those boundaries shift and become incredibly blurred at times). That's why I think it is now a battle for hearts and minds - people need to see that they do not have small, mentally-impoverished lives, that they are indeed already part of something important - we do not need a heavy-handed government to see that. I remain hopeful that the eons we spent as social beings will win out in the end and reject the new impositions on our lives.

Describes the tin hats on here to a tee.

Trollin more like

How can you accuse those sceptical of the blunt instrument that is our COVID response, on the basis of questionable science and data which they can readily and factually contradict, of a possessing a cult mentality?

[Ntv]

anonymoususer said:

77th Brigade said:

anonymoususer said:

I use a nasal spray for Hayfever
Least I think it's hayfever as it seems the symptons are identical to covid
But anyway I have never caught Covid. I can sell people some spray if they want

Beconase steroidal spray in an aqueous solution?

Its actually called Budesonide Aqueous Nasal Spray so it may well be what you describe

garyhun said:

anonymoususer said:

I use a nasal spray for Hayfever
Least I think it's hayfever as it seems the symptons are identical to covid
But anyway I have never caught Covid. I can sell people some spray if they want

I’ve not been wearing a mask for months and not caught Covid either. I can advise not wearing a mask - it’s cheaper than your nasal spray too!

Ah but would the mask prevent my Hay Fever.
I feel I shall just persevere using my nasal spray by sticking it in altenate nostrils
My tongue will remain in my cheek.

Oh and with a new PLUS variant my wife wonders if the next one will be a GL/ Deluxe/ or even Ghia variant

I would rate the hayfever I've had over the last month as much more unpleasant than the COVID I had last year.

I'd rather have COVID than hayfever.

[johnboy1975]

Elysium said:

The Telegraph said:

Antibody rates are now more than 50 per cent higher than epidemiologists predicted they would be when they published models which informed the Covid roadmap.

In February, Imperial College warned that only 44.6 per cent of the population would be protected by the original lockdown release day of June 21.

But the latest figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that eight in 10 people over the age of 16 now have antibodies to Covid.

For the whole population, including children, nearly seven in 10 have immunity – 54 per cent higher than the modellers predicted.

The percentage of those with immunity is likely to be higher still because many under-16s will have had a previous infection and the data only runs up to June 7, meaning it does not include vaccinations and infections in the last fortnight.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/antibody-rates-50-per-cent-higher-roadmap-predictions/

There's a question in there for Nadim Zahawi in the 5 o'clock briefing:

If the data was better than expected regarding June 21st Unlocking (vaccination, cases, hospitalisations, deaths) why was it delayed? And can you confirm we are meeting / exceeding targets to unlock 2 weeks 'early', or can you tell us what data is being looked for? If you are looking for 4 weeks worth of jabs to be jabbed, why even bother having a review?

Bonus point question: can you confirm vaccines were taken off Matt Hancock and given to you because Boris thinks Matt is "fking useless" (and where do you think we'd be now if it had been left to him)

(suspect we all know the answer)

[johnboy1975]

NerveAgent said:

Great summary, this closely matches my thoughts.

Interestingly, I think the way out of it is actually going to be nationalistic comparisons, same as the vaccine. I think we are already seeing a few "well they are opening this before us" type stories.

Well there's precious little footage of other countries.....except the football. On that note, do you think the full stadia in Denmark and Bulgaria have prompted the government to increase Wembley's capacity from 25k to 65k? Would Nicola Sturgeon have done the same if Scotland had qualified? Alas, we will never know....

[plasticpig]

johnboy1975 said:

There's a question in there for Nadim Zahawi in the 5 o'clock briefing:

If the data was better than expected regarding June 21st Unlocking (vaccination, cases, hospitalisations, deaths) why was it delayed? And can you confirm we are meeting / exceeding targets to unlock 2 weeks 'early', or can you tell us what data is being looked for? If you are looking for 4 weeks worth of jabs to be jabbed, why even bother having a review?

Lockdown was delayed due to failing the 4th criteria for unlocking "our assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new Variants of Concern". The rest of the criteria are measurable. Bojo chickened out of unlocking on the basis they didn't have enough data to asses the risks of the Delta variant. We need to hope that an Epsilon variant doesn't pop up before the 19th of July or it will be a case of rinse and repeat on the same basis that they don't have enough data to asses the risk.

[NewBod]

Another anecdotal high five to the NHS.

My wife injured her eye a few weeks ago. Went to the local urgent treatment centre the next morning. They looked at it straight away (can't fault them for that) and said you need to leave it a few days and see how it goes. If it's still not cleared up, contact your GP.

Two weeks later, her eye is still blurry so she called the GP earlier. They won't see her until she can have a phone appointment. Next phone appointment is next week. Eh? She needs a physical examination.

My wife told the surgery everything that has happened and said she needs to be seen for someone to look at it. Nope said the GP surgery. Phone appointment only.

I can see us taking her to A&E or the UTC again. What an absolute waste of urgent treatment resources. What shocking behaviour by the GP.

That reminds me, I must file my complaint about the GP with the health ombudsman. This episode has given me more reason to do it now.

[Maximus_Meridius101]

The new Nepalese ‘Delta plus’ variant has been detected in the U.K. as of today. Ohhh dear that’s not good.

[NewBod]

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

The new Nepalese ‘Delta plus’ variant has been detected in the U.K. as of today. Ohhh dear that’s not good.

Do we have the G7 variant in circulation yet?

Did we label everything like this with flu?

[johnboy1975]

plasticpig said:

johnboy1975 said:

There's a question in there for Nadim Zahawi in the 5 o'clock briefing:

If the data was better than expected regarding June 21st Unlocking (vaccination, cases, hospitalisations, deaths) why was it delayed? And can you confirm we are meeting / exceeding targets to unlock 2 weeks 'early', or can you tell us what data is being looked for? If you are looking for 4 weeks worth of jabs to be jabbed, why even bother having a review?

Lockdown was delayed due to failing the 4th criteria for unlocking "our assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new Variants of Concern". The rest of the criteria are measurable. Bojo chickened out of unlocking on the basis they didn't have enough data to asses the risks of the Delta variant. We need to hope that an Epsilon variant doesn't pop up before the 19th of July or it will be a case of rinse and repeat on the same basis that they don't have enough data to asses the risk.

I disagree.

They did claim they needed more data. That data duly turned up about 10 minutes after the briefing, and you can add in Matt Hancock sitting on the data re Delta for 3 days before the briefing

They did had enough data on Delta to see that 1st doses were less effective against it, and so bought another month of time to jab more people. Ironically, in lots of cases, with first doses. Which are pretty ineffective

Re 'rest of the data being measurable' - agreed, but the %age of people with antibodies was never released (to my knowledge)

Absent an Epsilon variant then, do we unlock on the 5th July? Or do we need to jab more people, and go for the 19th?

[nigelpugh7]

I still can’t believe that we are on to the nth version of this thread!

We are never getting out of this s**t are we?

[mike80]

Maximus_Meridius101 said:

The new Nepalese ‘Delta plus’ variant has been detected in the U.K. as of today. Ohhh dear that’s not good.

It'll be this Delta variant before we know it, then we'll all be screwed.

[Stig]

plasticpig said:

johnboy1975 said:

There's a question in there for Nadim Zahawi in the 5 o'clock briefing:

If the data was better than expected regarding June 21st Unlocking (vaccination, cases, hospitalisations, deaths) why was it delayed? And can you confirm we are meeting / exceeding targets to unlock 2 weeks 'early', or can you tell us what data is being looked for? If you are looking for 4 weeks worth of jabs to be jabbed, why even bother having a review?

Lockdown was delayed due to failing the 4th criteria for unlocking "our assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new Variants of Concern". The rest of the criteria are measurable. Bojo chickened out of unlocking on the basis they didn't have enough data to asses the risks of the Delta variant. We need to hope that an Epsilon variant doesn't pop up before the 19th of July or it will be a case of rinse and repeat on the same basis that they don't have enough data to asses the risk.

So you haven’t seen the oh so conveniently timed headline about 41 cases of a Delta Plus variant today then? Conveniently before this afternoon’s press conference.

I know HMG think the proles are dim, but this is shameless!