another abuse gang
Discussion
This raises another interesting point. "Taking the piss".
Taking the piss is good for us. Done right it should be mildly offensive and slightly uncomfortable, there needs to be that element of feeling uncomfortable and 'have I gone too far?' for it to work.
If we could all take the piss *more* without worrying about the sensitive types the world would be a lot happier place
Taking the piss is good for us. Done right it should be mildly offensive and slightly uncomfortable, there needs to be that element of feeling uncomfortable and 'have I gone too far?' for it to work.
If we could all take the piss *more* without worrying about the sensitive types the world would be a lot happier place
WinstonWolf said:
This raises another interesting point. "Taking the piss".
Taking the piss is good for us. Done right it should be mildly offensive and slightly uncomfortable, there needs to be that element of feeling uncomfortable and 'have I gone too far?' for it to work.
If we could all take the piss *more* without worrying about the sensitive types the world would be a lot happier place
God you sound old !!!Taking the piss is good for us. Done right it should be mildly offensive and slightly uncomfortable, there needs to be that element of feeling uncomfortable and 'have I gone too far?' for it to work.
If we could all take the piss *more* without worrying about the sensitive types the world would be a lot happier place
That is not the world we live in anymore, the concept of "sticks and stones" is long gone.
I think we have to consider the abuse gangs as part of a broader picture of neglect.
The religion and ethnicity no doubt played a part in the gangs ability to evade investigation for so long. But this was also the case for Catholic priests, as well as celebrities and members of the political elite. Let's lump them all into one subset and call them 'protected species'. These are people who, for reasons of wealth, power, status, or through ethnic or religious minority, enjoy a degree of societal protection from which the mainstream is exempt.
What is fair and true to say of all these 'protected species' is that no one in authority -police, social services etc. - relishes having deal with a (complex) case involving them. So either consciously or sub-consciously, there is already a resistance to investigate or act on any evidence that is presented.
Furthermore, even when cases are investigated, they're often fudged, because of considerations to, or objections by the 'protected species'.
Finally, even if/when cases involving the 'protected species' are prosecuted, there is a grave danger that for both the authorities and the offenders, they're viewed as isolated, in a sort of "lightning doesn't strike twice" manner. Certainly, this latter point is highly apparent in the way the cases in point of this topic are concerned. Still, we're not at the end of them, and when were the first instances detected?
The religion and ethnicity no doubt played a part in the gangs ability to evade investigation for so long. But this was also the case for Catholic priests, as well as celebrities and members of the political elite. Let's lump them all into one subset and call them 'protected species'. These are people who, for reasons of wealth, power, status, or through ethnic or religious minority, enjoy a degree of societal protection from which the mainstream is exempt.
What is fair and true to say of all these 'protected species' is that no one in authority -police, social services etc. - relishes having deal with a (complex) case involving them. So either consciously or sub-consciously, there is already a resistance to investigate or act on any evidence that is presented.
Furthermore, even when cases are investigated, they're often fudged, because of considerations to, or objections by the 'protected species'.
Finally, even if/when cases involving the 'protected species' are prosecuted, there is a grave danger that for both the authorities and the offenders, they're viewed as isolated, in a sort of "lightning doesn't strike twice" manner. Certainly, this latter point is highly apparent in the way the cases in point of this topic are concerned. Still, we're not at the end of them, and when were the first instances detected?
Funkycoldribena said:
V8 Fettler said:
Not so, "neglect of duty by public office holders which results in serious consequences, or a risk of serious consequences arising" = misconduct in public office.
In other words,sent off with a whopping payout/pension.del mar said:
WinstonWolf said:
This raises another interesting point. "Taking the piss".
Taking the piss is good for us. Done right it should be mildly offensive and slightly uncomfortable, there needs to be that element of feeling uncomfortable and 'have I gone too far?' for it to work.
If we could all take the piss *more* without worrying about the sensitive types the world would be a lot happier place
God you sound old !!!Taking the piss is good for us. Done right it should be mildly offensive and slightly uncomfortable, there needs to be that element of feeling uncomfortable and 'have I gone too far?' for it to work.
If we could all take the piss *more* without worrying about the sensitive types the world would be a lot happier place
That is not the world we live in anymore, the concept of "sticks and stones" is long gone.
I'll pretty much disagree with Alpine Stars on everything in NP&E but we can take the piss.
I'd rather be true to myself and accept that I'll ruffle a few feathers than be afraid to be speak out for fear of upsetting people.
WinstonWolf said:
Alpinestars said:
I know we can disagree and have a laugh occasionally, but this is really offensive.
I like to think you and I are on opposite sides of the fence so to speak, but at lease we don't take it *too* personally. My comments aren't about you personally, they're about the principal of deflecting from the truth. I find what happened with these gangs really offensive, it completely offends my British sense of fair play. We're very tolerant, some people take advantage of this.
Political correctness shoulders the brunt of the blame IMO, when a problem such as this surfaces it's become fashionable to scream racist to shut down the debate, it's become the stock get out of jail free card. That is plainly wrong.
I'm a contentious f
ker at best, I have frequent run-ins with people because I object to PC more than anything. We should be able to have difficult discussions without them being shut down for fear of offending someone.Dagnir said:
Alpinestars said:
I know we can disagree and have a laugh occasionally, but this is really offensive.
Will you explain why please?Edited by odie.mod on Thursday 22 March 09:11
WinstonWolf said:
I find what happened with these gangs really offensive, it completely offends my British sense of fair play. We're very tolerant, some people take advantage of this.
Political correctness shoulders the brunt of the blame IMO, when a problem such as this surfaces it's become fashionable to scream racist to shut down the debate, it's become the stock get out of jail free card. That is plainly wrong.
Just to isolate this point for a moment: why do we as a nation try and ignore child sexual abuse and brush it under the carpet?Political correctness shoulders the brunt of the blame IMO, when a problem such as this surfaces it's become fashionable to scream racist to shut down the debate, it's become the stock get out of jail free card. That is plainly wrong.
It's not just in the case of these abhorrent f
knuts - it's across all types of abuse. The authorities, employers, friends, family knew and did nothing about it at best, actively covered it up at worst.Why is that?
desolate said:
WinstonWolf said:
I find what happened with these gangs really offensive, it completely offends my British sense of fair play. We're very tolerant, some people take advantage of this.
Political correctness shoulders the brunt of the blame IMO, when a problem such as this surfaces it's become fashionable to scream racist to shut down the debate, it's become the stock get out of jail free card. That is plainly wrong.
Just to isolate this point for a moment: why do we as a nation try and ignore child sexual abuse and brush it under the carpet?Political correctness shoulders the brunt of the blame IMO, when a problem such as this surfaces it's become fashionable to scream racist to shut down the debate, it's become the stock get out of jail free card. That is plainly wrong.
It's not just in the case of these abhorrent f
knuts - it's across all types of abuse. The authorities, employers, friends, family knew and did nothing about it at best, actively covered it up at worst.Why is that?
It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
WinstonWolf said:
Interestingly the mods just swept the post that started this conversation under the carpet...
It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
I can't quite follow what the mods have done.It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
What do you mean by the second paragraph?
Alpinestars said:
To say that (paraphrasing), "the likes of x, y and z (PH members), are the reason white girls are being raped in virtually every town, every week, every month" is highly offensive. It doesn't need any more explanation than that.
Ahh I must have missed that bit.I thought you said that the statement below was offensive.
"All these abuse gangs are a disgrace and got away with it because of who they are, it is a utter disgrace, and yet if you say anything your a racist."
desolate said:
WinstonWolf said:
Interestingly the mods just swept the post that started this conversation under the carpet...
It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
I can't quite follow what the mods have done.It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
What do you mean by the second paragraph?
I am not trying to deflect I am trying to understand how this situation arises.
The is a link in terms of cultural background in terms of the perpetrators of the crimes discussed in this thread.
There is a link with other child sex abuse matters in that there has been a systematic failure - call it a cover up by those around the perpetrators and by the authorities. This holds true for the sports cases, the entertainment cases, the church, the scouts and the abuse gangs on this thread.
So my question is WHY do we sweep this under the carpet? It is happening across all classes of child abuse.
If we understand the answer to this we will have a better answer to why this was allowed to continue for so long. It's clearly much more than political correctness.
desolate said:
desolate said:
WinstonWolf said:
Interestingly the mods just swept the post that started this conversation under the carpet...
It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
I can't quite follow what the mods have done.It might not be your intention to divert the thread away from the topic once again, but that's how it comes across.
What do you mean by the second paragraph?
I am not trying to deflect I am trying to understand how this situation arises.
The is a link in terms of cultural background in terms of the perpetrators of the crimes discussed in this thread.
There is a link with other child sex abuse matters in that there has been a systematic failure - call it a cover up by those around the perpetrators and by the authorities. This holds true for the sports cases, the entertainment cases, the church, the scouts and the abuse gangs on this thread.
So my question is WHY do we sweep this under the carpet? It is happening across all classes of child abuse.
If we understand the answer to this we will have a better answer to why this was allowed to continue for so long. It's clearly much more than political correctness.
Not everyone subscribes to our sense of fair play, and it can be taken advantage of.
To answer the broader question, deference is a very British trait. A mere serf can't cast aspersions of their betters as that would be the height of rudeness.
Jimmy Saville a wrong 'un? No way, look at all the work he does for Stoke Mandeville, no one will believe me. He's wonderful with kids...
WinstonWolf said:
Hmm, I think in *this* particular case PC does play a huge part. It's the 'that's not cricket' mentality. We're not overly keen on rude people as a nation and being thought a racist is the pinnacle of rudeness, it simply won't do.
Not everyone subscribes to our sense of fair play, and it can be taken advantage of.
To answer the broader question, deference is a very British trait. A mere serf can't cast aspersions of their betters as that would be the height of rudeness.
Jimmy Saville a wrong 'un? No way, look at all the work he does for Stoke Mandeville, no one will believe me. He's wonderful with kids...
I can see where you are coming from but I have to disagree. As a country we have demonstrated very little sense of fair play when it comes to kids who have been fNot everyone subscribes to our sense of fair play, and it can be taken advantage of.
To answer the broader question, deference is a very British trait. A mere serf can't cast aspersions of their betters as that would be the height of rudeness.
Jimmy Saville a wrong 'un? No way, look at all the work he does for Stoke Mandeville, no one will believe me. He's wonderful with kids...
ked by adults.In fact it seems that our default stance is to blame them and sweep it under the carpet.
Dagnir said:
Alpinestars said:
To say that (paraphrasing), "the likes of x, y and z (PH members), are the reason white girls are being raped in virtually every town, every week, every month" is highly offensive. It doesn't need any more explanation than that.
Ahh I must have missed that bit.I thought you said that the statement below was offensive.
"All these abuse gangs are a disgrace and got away with it because of who they are, it is a utter disgrace, and yet if you say anything your a racist."
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