The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
andyA700 said:
wisbech said:
DeejRC said:
My main problem with the arguments around this is I think the polarisation between “gun” problem or “people” problem is that it misses the society problem!
Ok, so I get that guns don’t shoot people, people shoot people. But people don’t shoot kids, pre teen kids. Who shoots pre teen kids??! This isn’t adult on adult violence here, this is just barely adult on kid violence.
This isn’t a gun issue or a people issue for me, it’s a “there is something rotten in the state of Denmark” issue. What the hell is happening in a society where it is now becoming priced in that there will be a school shooting??! That is bonkers insane to me, absolutely bonkers.
America needs a long hard conversation with itself. And not a pleasant one.
Eh - we almost certainly have the same underlying issues here. It's looking like the shooter was badly bullied, unstable family life etc. We all knew that 'psycho' at school. Difference is that in the UK, there's the NHS that can give support to badly trouble teenagers, and teenage phantasies of revenge remain just that, phantasies, due to the inability of screwed up 18 years olds to buy guns. We have knife violence, screwed up teenagers acting out their phantasies of revenge/ honour/ whatever, but it is pretty hard to kill more than one or two people at a time that way.Ok, so I get that guns don’t shoot people, people shoot people. But people don’t shoot kids, pre teen kids. Who shoots pre teen kids??! This isn’t adult on adult violence here, this is just barely adult on kid violence.
This isn’t a gun issue or a people issue for me, it’s a “there is something rotten in the state of Denmark” issue. What the hell is happening in a society where it is now becoming priced in that there will be a school shooting??! That is bonkers insane to me, absolutely bonkers.
America needs a long hard conversation with itself. And not a pleasant one.
See recent killing of 12 year old Ava in Liverpool by a 14 year old kid
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-615...
Words fail me - slow handclap mate.
Comparison time - from 2003-2011, around 4,800 coalition troops were killed in the Iraq conflict.
Last year, around 40,000 people were killed by guns in the US.
We have the same 'problem' cases as the states, however we look harder for them prior to their inevitable explosion, attempt to treat their illness and don't let them tool up like Rambo.
They still walk among us, and occasionally go pop, but cause far less damage.
Due to the trusted position I hold I would be able to cause a large explosion, along with three other equally trusted colleauges, was my demenour to change I'd lose such access immediately.
jdw100 said:
S17Thumper said:
I have 40+ watches.
Friend has 50 fishing rods. Another has 15 or so classic cars.
My cycling nut neighbour has at least ten 1980's racing bikes plus his normal bikes.
I think the above photo is just the result of collecting...a hobby.
I very doubt they intend to use all of those, keeping them loaded in the house for fear of the dreaded HOME INVASION!!!!
HOME INVASION!!!!
k needs a P90?! Most of those weapons there are military and designed to kill people. They can’t be used for hunting. Not unless you want your deer peppered with two dozen small calibre rounds, or conversely cleaved in half by a .50BMG. There is zero need for private ownership of those weapons. Owning weapons for game or sport is fine, but there are specific weapons for that, and even then they should be regulated so people are vetted for mental aptitude, correct use and storage, and their names logged with the weapon and it’s serial number.
It’s absolutely staggering that people keep defending the antiquated 2nd Amendment when people, kids and adults alike, are being murdered on a regular basis in the US just so they can take unsettling photos out on their decking. It’s selfish.
DeejRC said:
I’m sorry, but I *dont* see the same underlying issues here or elsewhere. We have knife crime yes…but it’s invariably turf/gang/manor related st.
This is very different stuff. This is of the level where, ok ban guns, etc, but the same ppl who will do these attacks will now look at different mediums. Walk into school with home made bombs/grenades/cocktails, or machetes, etc. This stuff won’t stop if you just ban guns. THAT to me is the bigger issue and I find that bonkers in a society. There is a deeper issue inside American society at the moment than just 2A that is a lot darker. I’m no gun lover, I don’t own or overly wish to own a gun, even as a farmer with a reasonably legitimate reason to should I decide, they aren’t my thing at all. I quite like the suggestion from some of making the ammo out there stunningly expensive for semi and automatic weapons. Daft that they are easily available to buy. But it doesn’t change my worry.
Of course, its not as simple as banning guns.t.This is very different stuff. This is of the level where, ok ban guns, etc, but the same ppl who will do these attacks will now look at different mediums. Walk into school with home made bombs/grenades/cocktails, or machetes, etc. This stuff won’t stop if you just ban guns. THAT to me is the bigger issue and I find that bonkers in a society. There is a deeper issue inside American society at the moment than just 2A that is a lot darker. I’m no gun lover, I don’t own or overly wish to own a gun, even as a farmer with a reasonably legitimate reason to should I decide, they aren’t my thing at all. I quite like the suggestion from some of making the ammo out there stunningly expensive for semi and automatic weapons. Daft that they are easily available to buy. But it doesn’t change my worry.
But its a start.
The glorification of the gun is partly a symptom and a symbol and the country finally growing up and accepting that gun control is necessary is a step along a road to healing a culture of not caring.
America has no hope, when this is the quality of their politicians. From the Guardian.
"The Arizona congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled the shooter’s name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.
Gosar’s office did not return a message seeking comment".
"The Arizona congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled the shooter’s name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.
Gosar’s office did not return a message seeking comment".
Castrol for a knave said:
America has no hope, when this is the quality of their politicians. From the Guardian.
"The Arizona congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled the shooter’s name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.
Gosar’s office did not return a message seeking comment".
On R4 this morning, a Texan Congressman member of the Texas Rifle Association made some comments about the perpetrator of the massacre being a misfit who wore eyeliner, dresses and disrespected women, who'd been in trouble with the law (not so apparently) . He then went on to defend guns, then sort of admitted that the type of guns might need to be restricted, then back-pedalled. It was rambling BS."The Arizona congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled the shooter’s name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.
Gosar’s office did not return a message seeking comment".
Guns are so deeply ingrained into their culture, it is almost like suggesting banning TV, Internet (or food?) to them.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 26th May 09:23
MC Bodge said:
Boozy said:
There’s laws here from the right pushing to make it harder to have an abortion but make it easier to own a gun.
As an onlooker, the logical contortions look difficult. 
MC Bodge said:
Boozy said:
There’s laws here from the right pushing to make it harder to have an abortion but make it easier to own a gun.
As an onlooker, the logical contortions look difficult. At this point we need to admit the republicans don't care about the children and just want control.
sparkythecat said:
MC Bodge said:
Boozy said:
There’s laws here from the right pushing to make it harder to have an abortion but make it easier to own a gun.
As an onlooker, the logical contortions look difficult. captain_cynic said:
It's the same party pushing anti abortion laws that also refused to allow baby formula to be imported (there's a severe shortage over there) and refuses to even condemn, let alone act and legislate against gun violence when children are being shot up at school.
At this point we need to admit the republicans don't care about the children and just want control.
On one US forum I frequent, the Republican party is regularly referred to as a death cult.At this point we need to admit the republicans don't care about the children and just want control.
I'm beginning to think they're not exaggerating.
I know that they can't/won't do anything about gun ownership at the current time but can't they stop people from buying tactical gear like body armour, wearable night vision systems and helmets? Perhaps if the Gravy Seals & Meal Team 6 can't play dress up like 7 year olds it might reduce the glamour of pretending that you're 1776 Freedom Fighter? And unless all American wildlife have got organised and become combat ready there is no justification for using any of that gear for hunting.
This picture tells a story.
A man in tactical gear with a firearm on his hip telling another man who happens to be his political opponent, that he is 'out of line' to protest about a school shooting to a governor, who through his policies seems to be actively trying to encourage disturbed people to carry them out. The same governor is desperately trying to look the other way while a group of his supporters stand around with their hands over their crotches trying to protect bks they clearly haven't actually got.
America is so fked.
This picture tells a story.
A man in tactical gear with a firearm on his hip telling another man who happens to be his political opponent, that he is 'out of line' to protest about a school shooting to a governor, who through his policies seems to be actively trying to encourage disturbed people to carry them out. The same governor is desperately trying to look the other way while a group of his supporters stand around with their hands over their crotches trying to protect b
ks they clearly haven't actually got. America is so f
ked. AW111 said:
captain_cynic said:
It's the same party pushing anti abortion laws that also refused to allow baby formula to be imported (there's a severe shortage over there) and refuses to even condemn, let alone act and legislate against gun violence when children are being shot up at school.
At this point we need to admit the republicans don't care about the children and just want control.
On one US forum I frequent, the Republican party is regularly referred to as a death cult.At this point we need to admit the republicans don't care about the children and just want control.
I'm beginning to think they're not exaggerating.
The Hypno-Toad said:
I know that they can't/won't do anything about gun ownership at the current time but can't they stop people from buying tactical gear like body armour, wearable night vision systems and helmets? Perhaps if the Gravy Seals & Meal Team 6 can't play dress up like 7 year olds it might reduce the glamour of pretending that you're 1776 Freedom Fighter? And unless all American wildlife have got organised and become combat ready there is no justification for using any of that gear for hunting.
This picture tells a story.
A man in tactical gear with a firearm on his hip telling another man who happens to be his political opponent, that he is 'out of line' to protest about a school shooting to a governor, who through his policies seems to be actively trying to encourage disturbed people to carry them out. The same governor is desperately trying to look the other way while a group of his supporters stand around with their hands over their crotches trying to protect bks they clearly haven't actually got.
America is so fked.
You missed the bit where Abbott dressed like law enforcement for his press briefing, that Abbott had just passed the law that allowed the 18 year old to buy the AR15 on his 18th birthday, over 21's to get a handgun without background checks, in fact has signed over 20 laws removing restrictions to firearms and providing even easier access.This picture tells a story.
A man in tactical gear with a firearm on his hip telling another man who happens to be his political opponent, that he is 'out of line' to protest about a school shooting to a governor, who through his policies seems to be actively trying to encourage disturbed people to carry them out. The same governor is desperately trying to look the other way while a group of his supporters stand around with their hands over their crotches trying to protect b
ks they clearly haven't actually got. America is so f
ked. Good for Beto - he has a point
MC Bodge said:
Castrol for a knave said:
America has no hope, when this is the quality of their politicians. From the Guardian.
"The Arizona congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled the shooter’s name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.
Gosar’s office did not return a message seeking comment".
On R4 this morning, a Texan Congressman member of the Texas Rifle Association made some comments about the perpetrator of the massacre being a misfit who wore eyeliner, dresses and disrespected women, who'd been in trouble with the law (not so apparently) . He then went on to defend guns, then sort of admitted that the type of guns might need to be restricted, then back-pedalled. It was rambling BS."The Arizona congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled the shooter’s name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.
Gosar’s office did not return a message seeking comment".
Guns are so deeply ingrained into their culture, it is almost like suggesting banning TV, Internet (or food?) to them.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 26th May 09:23
knuttery. He said "because the Constitution" which is clearly a non-argument. And then by saying the killer had a history of social/emotional problems he was inescapably making the case that the guy wasn't safe to own firearms, yet he opposes background checks. The interviewer should have torn him apart.sebdangerfield said:
That’s kind of the point though. Those sick fks who want to shoot kids in school will still exist. They probably still exist here in the UK. The difference though is all of the alternative methods you list of killing kids are either much less efficient or much harder to achieve than walking into Walmart and buying an assault rifle or taking one of the 10 your dad owns. Bomb making takes skill, preparation and research, by which point there’s a high chance you’ve been caught or calmed down enough to not do it. Or if they haven’t, hopefully killed far fewer people as they’re reloading their shotgun or having to get within knife attack distance of each victim.
I get it. Guns don’t kill people. Sick people kill people. So why give those sick people easy access to guns?
this. people have tried bombs at school before even with great research and failed, if guns didn't magically exist in america for the public then deaths in schools etc would plummet ks who want to shoot kids in school will still exist. They probably still exist here in the UK. The difference though is all of the alternative methods you list of killing kids are either much less efficient or much harder to achieve than walking into Walmart and buying an assault rifle or taking one of the 10 your dad owns. Bomb making takes skill, preparation and research, by which point there’s a high chance you’ve been caught or calmed down enough to not do it. Or if they haven’t, hopefully killed far fewer people as they’re reloading their shotgun or having to get within knife attack distance of each victim. I get it. Guns don’t kill people. Sick people kill people. So why give those sick people easy access to guns?
Remember the "30% ownership" is not adjusted for location or population density.
There are vast areas of the USA where fishing, outdoors life, hunting, shooting, beer and big V8s are still the main forms of recreation.
Your average person from LA or DC will have very different views on how to have fun at the weekend to someone from Gasden, Alabama.
I know people who live in the south who literally don't know a single person who does not own a gun of some sort. Every house has a shotgun or .22 rifle. Its just the done thing. You have a racoon problem.... shotgun comes out... no longer have a racoon problem. Its weird to many people but to them its normal life.
That gives these people a different view on the gun laws and makes the local politics quite skewed from that of the more populated areas. I am not trying to justify their views I think they can easily do a lot to improve things but life in the backwaters of Mississippi is still a bit stuck in the past.
There are vast areas of the USA where fishing, outdoors life, hunting, shooting, beer and big V8s are still the main forms of recreation.
Your average person from LA or DC will have very different views on how to have fun at the weekend to someone from Gasden, Alabama.
I know people who live in the south who literally don't know a single person who does not own a gun of some sort. Every house has a shotgun or .22 rifle. Its just the done thing. You have a racoon problem.... shotgun comes out... no longer have a racoon problem. Its weird to many people but to them its normal life.
That gives these people a different view on the gun laws and makes the local politics quite skewed from that of the more populated areas. I am not trying to justify their views I think they can easily do a lot to improve things but life in the backwaters of Mississippi is still a bit stuck in the past.
gotoPzero said:
Remember the "30% ownership" is not adjusted for location or population density.
There are vast areas of the USA where fishing, outdoors life, hunting, shooting, beer and big V8s are still the main forms of recreation.
Your average person from LA or DC will have very different views on how to have fun at the weekend to someone from Gasden, Alabama.
I know people who live in the south who literally don't know a single person who does not own a gun of some sort. Every house has a shotgun or .22 rifle. Its just the done thing. You have a racoon problem.... shotgun comes out... no longer have a racoon problem. Its weird to many people but to them its normal life.
That gives these people a different view on the gun laws and makes the local politics quite skewed from that of the more populated areas. I am not trying to justify their views I think they can easily do a lot to improve things but life in the backwaters of Mississippi is still a bit stuck in the past.
There are places in the UK where everyone has a shotgun. They aren't large enough to affect the statistics. There are vast areas of the USA where fishing, outdoors life, hunting, shooting, beer and big V8s are still the main forms of recreation.
Your average person from LA or DC will have very different views on how to have fun at the weekend to someone from Gasden, Alabama.
I know people who live in the south who literally don't know a single person who does not own a gun of some sort. Every house has a shotgun or .22 rifle. Its just the done thing. You have a racoon problem.... shotgun comes out... no longer have a racoon problem. Its weird to many people but to them its normal life.
That gives these people a different view on the gun laws and makes the local politics quite skewed from that of the more populated areas. I am not trying to justify their views I think they can easily do a lot to improve things but life in the backwaters of Mississippi is still a bit stuck in the past.
Also a .22 bolt action is one thing. A 5.56mm full automatic is another thing. It's not a rifle used for hunting or clearing out troublesome animals. Any experienced hunter will tell you an AR 15 will just p
s off a bear (hence the saying " loaded for bear" meant you were loaded with a calibre meant to take down a bear, as in a large one).Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff