Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
r11co said:
Edinburger said:
That depends on what you think the argument is.
The argument: the Old Firm have a problem with sectarian hatred which is damaging Scottish society both within and outwith football is easily won.
Maybe, but not for this topic. There are plenty of tribalistic lines drawn in Scottish society and this is just one of them (albeit probably the biggest and most problematic).The argument: the Old Firm have a problem with sectarian hatred which is damaging Scottish society both within and outwith football is easily won.
As I said though, it will never be debated sensibly in this forum and (respect to Strocky who learned his lesson in this respect) will lead to bans.
Nanook said:
Edinburger said:
Oh, for goodness sake.
The "antics" were Hibs fans on the pitch displaying exuberance and celebrating Hibs winning the Scotish Cup after a well publicised wait.
A pitch invasion can't be justified. Never. However, if you watch the footage you can understand what caused that.
The problems started when the Rangers fans invaded the pitch and goaded the Hibs fans.
Quesion - why did Rangers fans invade the pitch? Was it because they couldn't stand seeing fans of a club with Irish catholic roots celebrating?
And both sets of fans were guilty of isloated violence.
You cannot compare that one-off event with decades of violence, murders, hatred and division thanks to the Old Firm. That's the problem we're discussing.
The "antics" were Hibs fans on the pitch displaying exuberance and celebrating Hibs winning the Scotish Cup after a well publicised wait.
A pitch invasion can't be justified. Never. However, if you watch the footage you can understand what caused that.
The problems started when the Rangers fans invaded the pitch and goaded the Hibs fans.
Quesion - why did Rangers fans invade the pitch? Was it because they couldn't stand seeing fans of a club with Irish catholic roots celebrating?
And both sets of fans were guilty of isloated violence.
You cannot compare that one-off event with decades of violence, murders, hatred and division thanks to the Old Firm. That's the problem we're discussing.
Just you keep kidding yourself on, cos you're not fooling anyone else.
It's also well off-topic as a century or so long feud motivated by alleged historic divisions dating back thee-plus centuries is hardly 'news'.
Also, there's a forum for it.
Also, there's a forum for it.
r11co said:
It's also well off-topic as a century or so long feud motivated by alleged historic divisions dating back thee-plus centuries is hardly 'news'.
Also, there's a forum for it.
The football forum is for discussing, err..., football.Also, there's a forum for it.
Why wouldn't this forum which is discussing a variety of Scottish issues and matters, both policical and sociable, be appropriate for disussing this issue? Look at this article: https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/...
Edinburger said:
The knuckle-draggers who visited Easter Road must have missed that memo.
Half the problem is the Old Firm fans who think it’s moral and acceptable and pretend it doesn’t happen. Singing about battles over 300 years ago. Hating people who they think go to a different church. Absolutely pathetic.
Hmm, so on that basis you presumably also object to Flower of Scotland, La Marseillaise and countless other songs/anthems which refer to historic battles. Or, it could be that actually you only object because its Rangers, and in fact you are just as prejudiced as you're dismissing others for being?Half the problem is the Old Firm fans who think it’s moral and acceptable and pretend it doesn’t happen. Singing about battles over 300 years ago. Hating people who they think go to a different church. Absolutely pathetic.
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
The knuckle-draggers who visited Easter Road must have missed that memo.
Half the problem is the Old Firm fans who think it’s moral and acceptable and pretend it doesn’t happen. Singing about battles over 300 years ago. Hating people who they think go to a different church. Absolutely pathetic.
Hmm, so on that basis you presumably also object to Flower of Scotland, La Marseillaise and countless other songs/anthems which refer to historic battles. Or, it could be that actually you only object because its Rangers, and in fact you are just as prejudiced as you're dismissing others for being?Half the problem is the Old Firm fans who think it’s moral and acceptable and pretend it doesn’t happen. Singing about battles over 300 years ago. Hating people who they think go to a different church. Absolutely pathetic.
I hate hearing Celtic fans and Hearts fans at it just as much as I do with the Rangers fans.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Not seeing any link between Hibs fans on some grass and Scotland breaking out of the union.
Unless there is a link that I’m not getting.
Also, nice distraction from the report about the latest failings of the devolved health service.
Something that after 11 years shouldn’t be happening.
Not seeing any link between Hibs fans on some grass and Scotland breaking out of the union.
Unless there is a link that I’m not getting.
Also, nice distraction from the report about the latest failings of the devolved health service.
Something that after 11 years shouldn’t be happening.
Edinburger said:
Nanook said:
Edinburger said:
I’m not trying to suggest any team has better supporters than another team. However, Old Firm supporters carry a lot of sectarian hatred against each other and alsonsome other teams. This is a problem in West of Scotland society (mainly) which goes much further than just at football games. But you know that. Sectarian hatred is a big problem. The authorities can’t control it, the police ignore it, and we as a society are blighted by it.
Horrible thing. And very worthy of discussion in this thread.
See, you say you're not trying to suggest that any team has better supporters than any other.Horrible thing. And very worthy of discussion in this thread.
But it's clear that is what you're saying. You're glossing over the antics of your favourite teams fans, whilst referring to others as knuckle-draggers, and talking about how bad the old firm are.
So which is it? Are some better than others? Or not?
The "antics" were Hibs fans on the pitch displaying exuberance and celebrating Hibs winning the Scotish Cup after a well publicised wait.
A pitch invasion can't be justified. Never. However, if you watch the footage you can understand what caused that.
The problems started when the Rangers fans invaded the pitch and goaded the Hibs fans.
Quesion - why did Rangers fans invade the pitch? Was it because they couldn't stand seeing fans of a club with Irish catholic roots celebrating?
And both sets of fans were guilty of isloated violence.
You cannot compare that one-off event with decades of violence, murders, hatred and division thanks to the Old Firm. That's the problem we're discussing.
"After shifting 21 million books, appearing in countless shows, Delia Smith is turning her back on television. But to the relief of nervous egg boilers everywhere, the 71-year-old is hanging on to her apron to reinvent herself in the increasingly competitive world of online cookery."
Right up your street. The thread diversion that is.
Funny how it's always YOU who kicks off about sectarianism. Perhaps it's all you've got.
Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Friday 26th October 15:39
A.J.M said:
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Not seeing any link between Hibs fans on some grass and Scotland breaking out of the union.
Unless there is a link that I’m not getting.
Also, nice distraction from the report about the latest failings of the devolved health service.
Something that after 11 years shouldn’t be happening.
Not sure how long you've visited this thread, but shis thread discusses various aspects of Scottish life and culture over and above independence.Not seeing any link between Hibs fans on some grass and Scotland breaking out of the union.
Unless there is a link that I’m not getting.
Also, nice distraction from the report about the latest failings of the devolved health service.
Something that after 11 years shouldn’t be happening.
Kccv23highliftcam said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/t...
"After shifting 21 million books, appearing in countless shows, Delia Smith is turning her back on television. But to the relief of nervous egg boilers everywhere, the 71-year-old is hanging on to her apron to reinvent herself in the increasingly competitive world of online cookery."
Right up your street. The thread diversion that is.
Funny how it's always YOU who kicks off about sectarianism. Perhaps it's all you've got.
Yeah, that's right. I only ever talk about sectarianism, me. "After shifting 21 million books, appearing in countless shows, Delia Smith is turning her back on television. But to the relief of nervous egg boilers everywhere, the 71-year-old is hanging on to her apron to reinvent herself in the increasingly competitive world of online cookery."
Right up your street. The thread diversion that is.
Funny how it's always YOU who kicks off about sectarianism. Perhaps it's all you've got.
Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Friday 26th October 15:39
Edinburger said:
Kccv23highliftcam said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/t...
"After shifting 21 million books, appearing in countless shows, Delia Smith is turning her back on television. But to the relief of nervous egg boilers everywhere, the 71-year-old is hanging on to her apron to reinvent herself in the increasingly competitive world of online cookery."
Right up your street. The thread diversion that is.
Funny how it's always YOU who kicks off about sectarianism. Perhaps it's all you've got.
Yeah, that's right. I only ever talk about sectarianism, me. "After shifting 21 million books, appearing in countless shows, Delia Smith is turning her back on television. But to the relief of nervous egg boilers everywhere, the 71-year-old is hanging on to her apron to reinvent herself in the increasingly competitive world of online cookery."
Right up your street. The thread diversion that is.
Funny how it's always YOU who kicks off about sectarianism. Perhaps it's all you've got.
Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Friday 26th October 15:39
Edinburger said:
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
The knuckle-draggers who visited Easter Road must have missed that memo.
Half the problem is the Old Firm fans who think it’s moral and acceptable and pretend it doesn’t happen. Singing about battles over 300 years ago. Hating people who they think go to a different church. Absolutely pathetic.
Hmm, so on that basis you presumably also object to Flower of Scotland, La Marseillaise and countless other songs/anthems which refer to historic battles. Or, it could be that actually you only object because its Rangers, and in fact you are just as prejudiced as you're dismissing others for being?Half the problem is the Old Firm fans who think it’s moral and acceptable and pretend it doesn’t happen. Singing about battles over 300 years ago. Hating people who they think go to a different church. Absolutely pathetic.
.
Battles and wars are fought, won and then celebrated for centuries afterwards (see FoS). This is not unique to Scotland, Norn Iron, Rangers or anything else. It's worldwide. Human nature. Why is it only one battle you have an issue with?
No need to answer btw, it's pretty obvious. Rangers bad.
Kccv23highliftcam said:
why's it out the water then?
"While ‘catch and release’ has long been the ethos for shark anglers, new research is revealing concerning rates of post-release mortality for a number of species. This is due to internal and external injuries, as well as physiological stress which can occur when a shark, skate or ray is played, handled and released."
https://www.ssacn.org/small-shark-handling-guide/
scottish sea angling conservation network. i'm not sure they understood the conflict between conservation and sticking hooks in fish. that soon changed when they got involved with the shark trust "While ‘catch and release’ has long been the ethos for shark anglers, new research is revealing concerning rates of post-release mortality for a number of species. This is due to internal and external injuries, as well as physiological stress which can occur when a shark, skate or ray is played, handled and released."
https://www.ssacn.org/small-shark-handling-guide/
technodup said:
ou said it was singing about old battles you didn't like (I've helpfully quoted you above). Now it's something else. Do you think the 700 year old Battle of Bannockburn was fought without blood being spilled?
Battles and wars are fought, won and then celebrated for centuries afterwards (see FoS). This is not unique to Scotland, Norn Iron, Rangers or anything else. It's worldwide. Human nature. Why is it only one battle you have an issue with?
No need to answer btw, it's pretty obvious. Rangers bad.
They are crap and rubbish, in fairnessBattles and wars are fought, won and then celebrated for centuries afterwards (see FoS). This is not unique to Scotland, Norn Iron, Rangers or anything else. It's worldwide. Human nature. Why is it only one battle you have an issue with?
No need to answer btw, it's pretty obvious. Rangers bad.
apparently mr swinney had some uncomfortable questions posed to him at a private meeting mid week,by a group of teachers that were hand selected to represent those of varying experience in the profession.this was the response to the letter he received from a teacher that went viral regarding the crisis in scottish education. i understand it didn't go too well as several refused to shake his hand at the end of the meeting and that some left with the opinion that he hasn't got a clue or any understanding of his responsibilities.
i also understand some of those present were more free than others to voice their opinion due to the fact that on the morning of the day of the meeting some were handed letters from their local education authority reminding them of their responsibilities toward the authority and schools. i'm sure lessons will be learned somewhere,just not as well as they should be in scottish schools for the foreseeable future. never mind the sheep on islay can sleep easy tonight
i also understand some of those present were more free than others to voice their opinion due to the fact that on the morning of the day of the meeting some were handed letters from their local education authority reminding them of their responsibilities toward the authority and schools. i'm sure lessons will be learned somewhere,just not as well as they should be in scottish schools for the foreseeable future. never mind the sheep on islay can sleep easy tonight
Edinburger said:
Not sure how long you've visited this thread, but shis thread discusses various aspects of Scottish life and culture over and above independence.
Been here as long as you have.Only a couple of people bring football into it.
Everyone else leaves it out.
Open a thread in football or Scotland to discuss football. It’s got the same amount of relevance to independence as me asking for tyres for my 80” Land Rover.
Rangers hate Celtic.
Celtic hate Rangers.
Both fans sing songs about history, both have had to change songs about history.
Both have questionable fans and behaviour.
wc98 said:
apparently mr swinney had some uncomfortable questions posed to him at a private meeting mid week,by a group of teachers that were hand selected to represent those of varying experience in the profession.this was the response to the letter he received from a teacher that went viral regarding the crisis in scottish education. i understand it didn't go too well as several refused to shake his hand at the end of the meeting and that some left with the opinion that he hasn't got a clue or any understanding of his responsibilities.
i also understand some of those present were more free than others to voice their opinion due to the fact that on the morning of the day of the meeting some were handed letters from their local education authority reminding them of their responsibilities toward the authority and schools. i'm sure lessons will be learned somewhere,just not as well as they should be in scottish schools for the foreseeable future. never mind the sheep on islay can sleep easy tonight
Swinney was chosen to for education because he was the best SNP man for the job. Sturgeon staked her reputation on it and started on the right foot by dismissing the illiterate clothes-horse Angela Constance as Education Secretary and appointed probably the most popular SNP politician (Sturgeon knows this, Salmond would never admit it) in her place. Trouble is that he is the best the SNP have to offer, which amply demonstrates the dearth of political talent in their ranks, and he's been found lacking because he's not prepared to denounce the work of Mike Russell (education secretary 2009-2014), the true architect of Scottish education's path to failure because he turned the implementation of Curriculum for Excellence into a massive exercise in money wasting that actually left schools less well-equipped to deliver effective teaching and learning.i also understand some of those present were more free than others to voice their opinion due to the fact that on the morning of the day of the meeting some were handed letters from their local education authority reminding them of their responsibilities toward the authority and schools. i'm sure lessons will be learned somewhere,just not as well as they should be in scottish schools for the foreseeable future. never mind the sheep on islay can sleep easy tonight
Edited by r11co on Friday 26th October 20:45
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