Why are we "Ring Fencing" Foreign Aid?

[Pan Pan Pan]

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

According to some of the news outlets this morning, most people in the UK back Rishi Sunacks intention to get the UKs own house in (as much) order as possible first, before handing out foreign aid.
It would seem to be the logical thing to do,. you cannot build a boat, whilst you are treading water.

And populism is a good thing?

Just because 'According to some of the news outlets this morning, most people in the UK back Rishi Sunack's...." doesn't make it a good thing or the correct thing to do long term.

Some would prefer to call it pragmatism, or if the matter had been put to a democratic vote, an example of democracy in action..
However, as we have seen, there are some out there who don't like democracy, especially if it does not give the (minority ) result that they would prefer, so those people just call it populism.

Interesting.

Is there any recent examples you can provide where the majority of the population decided upon something, that the “(minority)” then shouted “populism”?

Do you think that Trumps recent presidency was a pragmatic success?

What else would you call a situation, where the majority got the result they preferred, is that populism, or is that democracy?

1920/30's Germany voted for a populist leader, that leader didn't represent democracy. This example can be used as a very negative result of populism, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, but they didn't know what Hitler would turn it into at the time. But since it was the result of a vote from the people I would call it democracy. In Russia people voted for Stalin, and he was as much of an a*sehole as Hitler.
Strangely, all through history, people have been known to make both good and bad choices. it is what is called living.

[Unknown_User]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Yes, but they didn't know what Hitler would turn it into at the time. But since it was the result of a vote from the people I would call it democracy. In Russia people voted for Stalin, and he was as much of an a*sehole as Hitler.
Strangely, all through history, people have been known to make both good and bad choices. it is what is called living.

I'm not sure about that.

Hilter wrote Mein Kampf in 1923. This set out the blue print for a Third Reich. So, if as you clearly claim above, that is what you would call democracy, then I'm out. I hope your day is full of your kind of "democracy".

[Pan Pan Pan]

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Yes, but they didn't know what Hitler would turn it into at the time. But since it was the result of a vote from the people I would call it democracy. In Russia people voted for Stalin, and he was as much of an a*sehole as Hitler.
Strangely, all through history, people have been known to make both good and bad choices. it is what is called living.

I'm not sure about that.

Hilter wrote Mein Kampf in 1923. This set out the blue print for a Third Reich. So, if as you clearly claim above, that is what you would call democracy, then I'm out. I hope your day is full of your kind of "democracy".

And I am sure that all the German people who still had a job in 1923, but who were starving, and, who were taking their paper money wages home in a wheel barrow, just rushed out to buy a copy of Mein Kampf as soon as it was published, so that they knew just what the blue print for the Third Reich was going to be?
They had a vote and in this case an psychopath a*sehole won it. It was still as near to democracy as the bloke in the street was likely to get. (not forgetting of course, the actions of the various pressure groups)

[PRTVR]

Nick Ferrari on LBC talking about £71m aid to China,
the comments show the disconnect between normal people and and academics/ Politicians.
https://youtu.be/7gNuloTHrr4

[Digga]

PRTVR said:

the disconnect between normal people and and academics/ Politicians.

The difference is simple and pretty much universal.

• Normal, ordinary people are fragile, they live on very clearly defined means and know they can lose those, their job and homes, very easily.

• The 'elite' are anti-fragile. They fear few consequences of their action or inaction. They win all ways.

[PRTVR]

Digga said:

PRTVR said:

the disconnect between normal people and and academics/ Politicians.

The difference is simple and pretty much universal.

• Normal, ordinary people are fragile, they live on very clearly defined means and know they can lose those, their job and homes, very easily.

• The 'elite' are anti-fragile. They fear few consequences of their action or inaction. They win all ways.

A very good point and one I had not considered, this also applies to most civil servants who run the foreign aid budgets.

[s1962a]

might have missed something, but don't countries like India say they want our aid? So why do we keep sending them bribes aid?

[CaptainSlow]

s1962a said:

might have missed something, but don't countries like India say they want our aid? So why do we keep sending them bribes aid?

Quite, especially when they take the bribes aid and still buy French military kit.

[s1962a]

CaptainSlow said:

s1962a said:

might have missed something, but don't countries like India say they want our aid? So why do we keep sending them bribes aid?

Quite, especially when they take the bribes aid and still buy French military kit.

more fool us!

[Digga]

s1962a said:

CaptainSlow said:

s1962a said:

might have missed something, but don't countries like India say they want our aid? So why do we keep sending them bribes aid?

Quite, especially when they take the bribes aid and still buy French military kit.

more fool us!

TBF, on that count, more fool them, but yes.

[Gecko1978]

PRTVR said:

Nick Ferrari on LBC talking about £71m aid to China,
the comments show the disconnect between normal people and and academics/ Politicians.
https://youtu.be/7gNuloTHrr4

The professor they had on justification seemed to be 70m to china was a drop in the ocean.

This is where we see the lack of correlation to the real world. Yes 70m out if 7b is small and in terms of our GDP smaller still. But its 70m that could be spent or saved. An to an individual its a huge sum. I suspect you could build a hospital wing for that or many new schools but that's not the point its more his elite attitude to 70m as his contribution is small to that and so what does it matter if its spent well.

An this is what it comes down to once you are comfortable you stop considering the pennies or how the government spends its money because you are unaffected. When your poor all of this has much more significance

[Digga]

Gecko1978 said:

PRTVR said:

Nick Ferrari on LBC talking about £71m aid to China,
the comments show the disconnect between normal people and and academics/ Politicians.
https://youtu.be/7gNuloTHrr4

The professor they had on justification seemed to be 70m to china was a drop in the ocean.

This is where we see the lack of correlation to the real world. Yes 70m out if 7b is small and in terms of our GDP smaller still. But its 70m that could be spent or saved. An to an individual its a huge sum. I suspect you could build a hospital wing for that or many new schools but that's not the point its more his elite attitude to 70m as his contribution is small to that and so what does it matter if its spent well.

An this is what it comes down to once you are comfortable you stop considering the pennies or how the government spends its money because you are unaffected. When your poor all of this has much more significance

Were I ever confronted with that attitude, my stance would be to ask the individual to consider just how many average way taxpayer's PAYE contributions that represents. Compared on that basis, I;d defy anyone to be quite so cavalier about the sum.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

[superlightr]

Digga said:

Gecko1978 said:

PRTVR said:

Nick Ferrari on LBC talking about £71m aid to China,
the comments show the disconnect between normal people and and academics/ Politicians.
https://youtu.be/7gNuloTHrr4

The professor they had on justification seemed to be 70m to china was a drop in the ocean.

This is where we see the lack of correlation to the real world. Yes 70m out if 7b is small and in terms of our GDP smaller still. But its 70m that could be spent or saved. An to an individual its a huge sum. I suspect you could build a hospital wing for that or many new schools but that's not the point its more his elite attitude to 70m as his contribution is small to that and so what does it matter if its spent well.

An this is what it comes down to once you are comfortable you stop considering the pennies or how the government spends its money because you are unaffected. When your poor all of this has much more significance

Were I ever confronted with that attitude, my stance would be to ask the individual to consider just how many average way taxpayer's PAYE contributions that represents. Compared on that basis, I;d defy anyone to be quite so cavalier about the sum.

exactly. When i first earnt any money with a PT job feeding 60k chickens each night at £1.10 an hr I would know how much work it took to earn anything. Thus if was buying something I would have an immediate is it worth it? ! comparison. Sadly for govt a £1m here or £500000.00 there is chicken feed to them but life changing to the average bloke in the street.

[Unknown_User]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

If anyone thinks it's correct that we should base our British ethos of FairPlay and helping others on what we receive, then I'm afraid my views of some of my fellow countrymen and women has been somewhat misguided. Just saying.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

If anyone thinks it's correct that we should base our British ethos of FairPlay and helping others on what we receive, then I'm afraid my views of some of my fellow countrymen and women has been somewhat misguided. Just saying.

It is one thing being charitable towards others, who are in need of assistance, it is quite another being a ridiculously stupid mug / patsy.
Which one do you think the UK should be?

[Unknown_User]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

If anyone thinks it's correct that we should base our British ethos of FairPlay and helping others on what we receive, then I'm afraid my views of some of my fellow countrymen and women has been somewhat misguided. Just saying.

It is one thing being charitable towards others, who are in need of assistance, it is quite another being a ridiculously stupid mug / patsy.
Which one do you think the UK should be?

First of all, let’s find out exactly where this aid goes before we start making ludicrous claims.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

If anyone thinks it's correct that we should base our British ethos of FairPlay and helping others on what we receive, then I'm afraid my views of some of my fellow countrymen and women has been somewhat misguided. Just saying.

It is one thing being charitable towards others, who are in need of assistance, it is quite another being a ridiculously stupid mug / patsy.
Which one do you think the UK should be?

First of all, let’s find out exactly where this aid goes before we start making ludicrous claims.

I don't disagree, but would question whether that is even possible But even without doing any investigation, some would easily realize the outstanding difference between the countries involved.
I am down to my last five and half million quid, so I could really do with some extra cash, I would therefore like you empty your bank accounts, and sell all your property, to reduce it to cash, which I then want you to give to me. just because I would really like to have your cash.
I am sure that with your attitude, you would see absolutely no problem in doing this?
Just think how good it is going to make you feel, after handing all your dosh over to me, its got to be the right thing to do for that reason alone, surely?

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 30th November 12:11

[Unknown_User]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

If anyone thinks it's correct that we should base our British ethos of FairPlay and helping others on what we receive, then I'm afraid my views of some of my fellow countrymen and women has been somewhat misguided. Just saying.

It is one thing being charitable towards others, who are in need of assistance, it is quite another being a ridiculously stupid mug / patsy.
Which one do you think the UK should be?

First of all, let’s find out exactly where this aid goes before we start making ludicrous claims.

I don't disagree, but would question whether that is even possible But even without doing any investigation, some would easily realize the outstanding difference between the countries involved.
I am down to my last five and half million quid, so I could really do with some extra cash, I would therefore like you empty your bank accounts, and sell all your property, to reduce it to cash, which I then want you to give to me. just because I would really like to have your cash.
I am sure that with your attitude, you would see absolutely no problem in doing this?
Just think how good it is going to make you feel, after handing all your dosh over to me, its got to be the right thing to do for that reason alone, surely?

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 30th November 12:11

Goodness gracious me...!

I would be surprised if it was impossible to find out where the aid went, maybe you should have tried to find out before posting. You did try to find out where the aid went before posting didn't you?

As for the rest of your post, it is utter bobbins. If the aid went directly into the PRC coffers, then yes it is scandalous we gifted them aid. If it went to poor people in rural Inner mongolia or Tibet to help them preserve their heritage, then maybe not.

If we look at the UK, historically we have benefitted from foreign aid in times on need - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20498306 - regardless of how much wealth we had. One day we might need a bit of a hand again.

Just think how good it is going to make us feel as a wealthy nation, helping others less fortunate, surely?

[Pan Pan Pan]

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unknown_User said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Since countries such as China are vastly greater, wealthier, and more powerful than the UK, does the UK receive handouts from China? Just asking.

If anyone thinks it's correct that we should base our British ethos of FairPlay and helping others on what we receive, then I'm afraid my views of some of my fellow countrymen and women has been somewhat misguided. Just saying.

It is one thing being charitable towards others, who are in need of assistance, it is quite another being a ridiculously stupid mug / patsy.
Which one do you think the UK should be?

First of all, let’s find out exactly where this aid goes before we start making ludicrous claims.

I don't disagree, but would question whether that is even possible But even without doing any investigation, some would easily realize the outstanding difference between the countries involved.
I am down to my last five and half million quid, so I could really do with some extra cash, I would therefore like you empty your bank accounts, and sell all your property, to reduce it to cash, which I then want you to give to me. just because I would really like to have your cash.
I am sure that with your attitude, you would see absolutely no problem in doing this?
Just think how good it is going to make you feel, after handing all your dosh over to me, its got to be the right thing to do for that reason alone, surely?

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 30th November 12:11

Goodness gracious me...!

I would be surprised if it was impossible to find out where the aid went, maybe you should have tried to find out before posting. You did try to find out where the aid went before posting didn't you?

As for the rest of your post, it is utter bobbins. If the aid went directly into the PRC coffers, then yes it is scandalous we gifted them aid. If it went to poor people in rural Inner mongolia or Tibet to help them preserve their heritage, then maybe not.

If we look at the UK, historically we have benefitted from foreign aid in times on need - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20498306 - regardless of how much wealth we had. One day we might need a bit of a hand again.

Just think how good it is going to make us feel as a wealthy nation, helping others less fortunate, surely?

So you believe that China is less fortunate and wealthier than the UK?
What a strange person you are, do you live in box closed off from the rest of the world?
Don't you think if China can, and does care about its people it would do something about them. If it does not, it would not be a matter of it being less fortunate, but a political decision, and that is a whole other ball game.
When can I expect your cheque, surely with only five and half million quid to my name, you can see that I really need the cash?.