Another prove your innocence case
Discussion
Please, try to curb the itch to be rude. Have you read any earlier posts? I said the establishment would prevent it - not that I agreed with all of it. You have now confirmed my point! I said it had its faults just like any system. When you reply, try to grasp the meaning of the words instead of showing off. And the last time I went into a 'pub' was about 30 years ago and it wasn't for the conversation. Blind assumption is probably at the root of this topic anyway. It must be endemic.
La Liga said:
Late disclosures can be perfectly be legitimate and valid depending on the circumstances.
I linked the manual earlier if people want to see for themselves how it can end up being a bit of a card game with various hands been shown at different times etc.
The problem is that this isn't a card game.I linked the manual earlier if people want to see for themselves how it can end up being a bit of a card game with various hands been shown at different times etc.
The failures (intentional or otherwise) of these people are f
king up the lives of others.In addition to this as their incompetence gets exposed more and more the public faith in the judicial system, and the Police plummets to new depths.
Well played that officer!
Thorodin said:
Please, try to curb the itch to be rude. Have you read any earlier posts? I said the establishment would prevent it - not that I agreed with all of it. You have now confirmed my point! I said it had its faults just like any system. When you reply, try to grasp the meaning of the words instead of showing off. And the last time I went into a 'pub' was about 30 years ago and it wasn't for the conversation. Blind assumption is probably at the root of this topic anyway. It must be endemic.
I will stop being rude when you stop spouting blether. You come across as the typical internet expert on everything, who assumes that the complex is simple, and that everyone in the system is involved in a self serving conspiracy, rather than wrestling with tricky problems and low resources. If only simple common sense could prevail, eh? Try getting some experience of reality and tell us if you still think it's all easy. Volunteer to be a magistrate, perhaps, or a school governor, or an NHS Trustee, or stand as a local councillor. Another insider view (no doubt to be dismissed by the tabloid-informed as mere self serving) -
https://crimbarrister.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/dis...
https://crimbarrister.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/dis...
Brave Fart said:
Just thinking "out loud".......would it work to have an independent body tasked with evidence review, after the police work but before a CPS charging decision? Surely any cost would be recouped by not pursuing flawed prosecutions, and it would leave the police free to gather evidence and chase villains. After all, it isn't working to have Officer Dibble managing disclosure, is it? Wouldn't disclosure be better handled by a fresh, independent (of both the defence and the prosecution) and expert pair of eyes?
Absolutely, but unfortunately the issue is one of cost. Previously with major crime you'd have individual disclosure officers / back-end file reviewing. The CPS would also have more people and time to play their part.
Rude-boy said:
The problem is that this isn't a card game.
A proper disclosure is fair to the accused but also doesn't allow them to have everything so they can worm their way out of something before committing to an account / defence. This the card analogy. Breadvan72 said:
Another insider view (no doubt to be dismissed by the tabloid-informed as mere self serving) -
https://crimbarrister.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/dis...
Well I've read that, and largely agree with it, and I think I understand your animosity to my earlier posts. You have either misunderstood or misrepresented me. I can't, and don't want, to influence or change your view or your perspective. I believe my English is reasonable and while I object to your infantile name-calling and mildly offensive personal characterisation, in the interests of the OP I would rather not maintain this silly clash. If you find my posts so objectionable the remedy is simple. https://crimbarrister.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/dis...
Breadvan72 said:
There are examples of the two systems in use in the World. I have practical experience of both. Adversarial is fairer. Feel free to disagree based on your extensive experience of sitting in the pub setting the World to rights.
Genuine question BV. How can it ever be fair.I was in a case where an employee had stolen quite a lot of goods. He admitted it, was dismissed and then charged by police. He then changed his plea and elected trial by Jury at Bow.
The CPS barrister was a young guy who was confident that the admission etc would make this an easy case to win. His opposite number was a older woman who proceeded to tear apart the CPS the police our systems etc.
It was impressive to watch to be honest, but it was like one had no weapons and she had a whole arsenal of things she threw in, confusing and muddying the waters.
His summing up was rubbish, hers was like listening to a master wordsmith full of emotion and created empathy with the accused.
Even though all the evidence and the admission confirmed his guilt, he was found not guilty.
It was an unfair match and justice was not served, so how could that sort of thing ever be avoided, or can it never be bettered.
Lack of resources in the Police and CPS is a big problem. I'd hazard a guess and say lack of senior supervision on the Police side and lack of manpower and pre-trial attention to the file on the CPS'.
Blaming lawyers or the Police for being systematically malicious is a little far fetched. There will be individuals who're incompetant and/or less inclined to do a proper job. The Court systems are designed to catch these out, as best the system can (no system is perfect, miscarriages either way will always happen).
Two things to bear in mind; firstly, barristers through their daily lives are not usually employees of the state and often both defend and prosecute and, secondly, juries tend to err on the side of caution when deciding whether or not to imprison someone. Doubt is doubt, and beyond reasonable doubt is a high bar to overcome.
Yes, society has a good chunk of thick people, a jury being a cross section, it's bound to contain some, however a reasonable jury directed by a competant judge is a pretty good filter.
Blaming lawyers or the Police for being systematically malicious is a little far fetched. There will be individuals who're incompetant and/or less inclined to do a proper job. The Court systems are designed to catch these out, as best the system can (no system is perfect, miscarriages either way will always happen).
Two things to bear in mind; firstly, barristers through their daily lives are not usually employees of the state and often both defend and prosecute and, secondly, juries tend to err on the side of caution when deciding whether or not to imprison someone. Doubt is doubt, and beyond reasonable doubt is a high bar to overcome.
Yes, society has a good chunk of thick people, a jury being a cross section, it's bound to contain some, however a reasonable jury directed by a competant judge is a pretty good filter.
The Daily Mail praised the defence Counsel in the Liam Allen case but ruined it by referring to her as a "female barrister". The correct term for a female barrister is "barrister".
Many of the DM commenters said "well, she was being paid £600 an hour, so screw her" and so on. In fact, she stayed up all night working on the disclosures for free.
Many of the DM commenters said "well, she was being paid £600 an hour, so screw her" and so on. In fact, she stayed up all night working on the disclosures for free.
New evidence came to light found by his sister in law after being jailed for 3 months,
Police and cps believed an edited face book transcript by the so called victim but didn’t look at his face book to see the full meassages?
It took two years for his appeal trial.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223567/Ma...
Looks like she broke up with her so to get him back accused him of rape.
Wonder how many more innocent men are in prison
Police and cps believed an edited face book transcript by the so called victim but didn’t look at his face book to see the full meassages?
It took two years for his appeal trial.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223567/Ma...
Looks like she broke up with her so to get him back accused him of rape.
Wonder how many more innocent men are in prison
Doesn’t surprise me.
We were burgled a few years ago, and some of the stuff showed up on eBay. I had pictures of said stuff, so it was easy to demonstrate it was my stuff. I wrote a very detailed statement with some junior person (unclear if they were police or civilians working for the police), and they needed me to explain how eBay worked. Not for the purposes of the statement, but they simply had no comprehension of searching for things on eBay.
It was most impressive, where on earth do they find someone in their mid twenties who can read and write, but not use the internet? The assumption that “they’d check the bloke’s Facebook” assumes they know how to do it.
We were burgled a few years ago, and some of the stuff showed up on eBay. I had pictures of said stuff, so it was easy to demonstrate it was my stuff. I wrote a very detailed statement with some junior person (unclear if they were police or civilians working for the police), and they needed me to explain how eBay worked. Not for the purposes of the statement, but they simply had no comprehension of searching for things on eBay.
It was most impressive, where on earth do they find someone in their mid twenties who can read and write, but not use the internet? The assumption that “they’d check the bloke’s Facebook” assumes they know how to do it.
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