Taking the knee
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
I know it's how you see it - as I pointed out, that's part of the problem. "If you don't react exactly as I expect/want you to/do myself, you must be against me and for the other side". It's the reverse side of the same intolerant coin.
I've said I think booing is stupid (and on way more than booing the knee thing). It's as effective as taking the knee. ie it's not effective at all.
But it's good to see you noting that both are gesture politics. If only we could move on from that and get something effective done. The FA and Southgate have it in their hands to do that, and if they did I would applaud them heartily. Their answer would be "but then the racists/booers have won" or "it's not fair on the majority of fans that don't"...they have a choice.
I've no problem being intolerant to knuckle draggers like that Murph.I've said I think booing is stupid (and on way more than booing the knee thing). It's as effective as taking the knee. ie it's not effective at all.
But it's good to see you noting that both are gesture politics. If only we could move on from that and get something effective done. The FA and Southgate have it in their hands to do that, and if they did I would applaud them heartily. Their answer would be "but then the racists/booers have won" or "it's not fair on the majority of fans that don't"...they have a choice.
You seem to want to have your cake and eat it.
Booing is stupid but the answer is for Southgate and the FA to change approach.
Not the knuckle draggers.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:Murph7355 said:
I know it's how you see it - as I pointed out, that's part of the problem. "If you don't react exactly as I expect/want you to/do myself, you must be against me and for the other side". It's the reverse side of the same intolerant coin.
I've said I think booing is stupid (and on way more than booing the knee thing). It's as effective as taking the knee. ie it's not effective at all.
But it's good to see you noting that both are gesture politics. If only we could move on from that and get something effective done. The FA and Southgate have it in their hands to do that, and if they did I would applaud them heartily. Their answer would be "but then the racists/booers have won" or "it's not fair on the majority of fans that don't"...they have a choice.
I've no problem being intolerant to knuckle draggers like that Murph.I've said I think booing is stupid (and on way more than booing the knee thing). It's as effective as taking the knee. ie it's not effective at all.
But it's good to see you noting that both are gesture politics. If only we could move on from that and get something effective done. The FA and Southgate have it in their hands to do that, and if they did I would applaud them heartily. Their answer would be "but then the racists/booers have won" or "it's not fair on the majority of fans that don't"...they have a choice.
You seem to want to have your cake and eat it.
Booing is stupid but the answer is for Southgate and the FA to change approach.
Not the knuckle draggers.
Murph7355 said:
BigMon said:
Well yeah, Millwall fans are reknowned for being both beacons of tolerance and haters of Marxism. Makes perfect sense.
If one should take Southgate and his players at their word, isn't it only fair to judge Millwall fans by their actions on the same topic?Southgate doesn't have a record of supporting marxism
Millwall fans don't have a record of opposing marxism
Millwall fans DO have a history of racism.
You judge people partly on their previous records.
Countdown said:
Murph7355 said:
BigMon said:
Well yeah, Millwall fans are reknowned for being both beacons of tolerance and haters of Marxism. Makes perfect sense.
If one should take Southgate and his players at their word, isn't it only fair to judge Millwall fans by their actions on the same topic?Southgate doesn't have a record of supporting marxism
Millwall fans don't have a record of opposing marxism
Millwall fans DO have a history of racism.
You judge people partly on their previous records.
ITV said:
Millwall football fans have clapped and cheered their players as the team linked arms and unveiled an anti-racism banner ahead of their match against QPR, just days after spectators boo-ed the team when they took a knee in support of BLM.
If they are racist why are they cheering an anti-racism banner 
Could it be that it is the specific gesture of "taking the knee" that people dislike
. Whether that be due to its links to a Marxist-anarchist organisation or whether they consider it to be virtue signalling b*llox. Many will never concede that of course as that would spoil all those accusations of racism against those who don't support this imported american custom.
JagLover said:
Countdown said:
Murph7355 said:
BigMon said:
Well yeah, Millwall fans are reknowned for being both beacons of tolerance and haters of Marxism. Makes perfect sense.
If one should take Southgate and his players at their word, isn't it only fair to judge Millwall fans by their actions on the same topic?Southgate doesn't have a record of supporting marxism
Millwall fans don't have a record of opposing marxism
Millwall fans DO have a history of racism.
You judge people partly on their previous records.
ITV said:
Millwall football fans have clapped and cheered their players as the team linked arms and unveiled an anti-racism banner ahead of their match against QPR, just days after spectators boo-ed the team when they took a knee in support of BLM.
If they are racist why are they cheering an anti-racism banner Could it be that it is the specific gesture of "taking the knee" that people dislike
. Whether that be due to its links to a Marxist-anarchist organisation or whether they consider it to be virtue signalling b*llox. Many will never concede that of course as that would spoil all those accusations of racism against those who don't support this imported american custom.
However this won't fit the racists agitators agenda.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I've no problem being intolerant to knuckle draggers like that Murph.
You seem to want to have your cake and eat it.
Booing is stupid but the answer is for Southgate and the FA to change approach.
Not the knuckle draggers.
I am telling you that you do not have to be a racist to believe that taking the knee is an ineffective, gesture politics type affair.You seem to want to have your cake and eat it.
Booing is stupid but the answer is for Southgate and the FA to change approach.
Not the knuckle draggers.
As per other threads, you are either incapable of understanding that, or understand it fully but want to troll/churn some other agenda.
Who's the knuckle dragger?
Murph7355 said:
I am telling you that you do not have to be a racist to believe that taking the knee is an ineffective, gesture politics type affair.
As per other threads, you are either incapable of understanding that, or understand it fully but want to troll/churn some other agenda.
Who's the knuckle dragger?
I've never said you have to be racist if you don't support it.As per other threads, you are either incapable of understanding that, or understand it fully but want to troll/churn some other agenda.
Who's the knuckle dragger?
Some will be of course.
Just don't boo the people doing it.
It seems slightly ironic that having said all of that you finish off by saying that because I don't agree with you I'm a troll or must have an agenda.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Murph7355 said:
I am telling you that you do not have to be a racist to believe that taking the knee is an ineffective, gesture politics type affair.
As per other threads, you are either incapable of understanding that, or understand it fully but want to troll/churn some other agenda.
Who's the knuckle dragger?
I've never said you have to be racist if you don't support it.As per other threads, you are either incapable of understanding that, or understand it fully but want to troll/churn some other agenda.
Who's the knuckle dragger?
Some will be of course.
- just not Millwall supporters.
It does seem bizarre, and almost insulting, to use the positioning that killed George Floyd to draw attention to racism. Like wearing a shower cap to show solidarity with Jews over the holocaust.
(Yes I know Kapaernick did it first, but the "on the knee" position gained FAR more attention from the GF case than the CK one)
I don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
(Yes I know Kapaernick did it first, but the "on the knee" position gained FAR more attention from the GF case than the CK one)
I don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
OnTheBreadline said:
...
I don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
I'd also remove their passport privileges to stop their sI don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
t being exported. (And if not a UK national, deport them).There3a whole raft of stuff that could be done if we're serious about stamping it out. But nothing is....
Murph7355 said:
OnTheBreadline said:
...
I don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
I'd also remove their passport privileges to stop their sI don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
t being exported. (And if not a UK national, deport them).There3a whole raft of stuff that could be done if we're serious about stamping it out. But nothing is....
OnTheBreadline said:
It does seem bizarre, and almost insulting, to use the positioning that killed George Floyd to draw attention to racism. Like wearing a shower cap to show solidarity with Jews over the holocaust.
(Yes I know Kapaernick did it first, but the "on the knee" position gained FAR more attention from the GF case than the CK one)
I don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
This guy may have a thing or two to say about that. Kaepernick was obviously someone who got a lot of media attention for doing it more recently. (Yes I know Kapaernick did it first, but the "on the knee" position gained FAR more attention from the GF case than the CK one)
I don't know what the answer is but the outcome should be a lifetime ban for ANYONE being in any way racist (or homophobic, come to that) at a sporting tournament/music gig/etc.
I'd say it's bizarre and insulting that people portrayed George Floyd as a saint and that he became a modern day face for a fight against racism despite the tenuous link that the action actually was racism rather than poor training / excessive force / police brutality.
g4ry13 said:
I'd say it's bizarre and insulting that people portrayed George Floyd as a saint and that he became a modern day face for a fight against racism despite the tenuous link that the action actually was racism rather than poor training / excessive force / police brutality.
Yes and no.Floyd was no saint and, I agree, his beatification in the media was unpalatable given his criminal history.
However..... (!)
He was most certainly a victim of racism. In some parts of the US (in many parts actually), racism from the police is appalling. Do not go driving around some cities in the US at night if you are young and black. Very risky. It shouldn't be this way.
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