Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

Do you think anyone who was in the NF should be in mainstream politics?

Do you think people that join the NF are racist?

Can you become a reformed racist?

What do you think attracted him to UKIP?

1. Depends on the individual.
2. Probably.
3. Yes.
4. The Tories were st.

If you're saying people can never change, your family must be very patient and forgiving people.

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

No, its been much more revealing than I expected.

Well we've revealed that UKIP don't have racist policies.

We've also revealed a trait of remainers is to misinterpret, twist and misquote people to fit their agenda.

[sidicks]

bmw535i said:

Well we've revealed that UKIP don't have racist policies.

We've also revealed a trait of remainers is to misinterpret, twist and misquote people to fit their agenda.

Didn't we know that 6 months ago?

[alfie2244]

bmw535i said:

If you're saying people can never change, your family must be very patient and forgiving people.

Indeed..........I was a right contrary sod 30 yrs ago............now look at me

[///ajd]

bmw535i said:

///ajd said:

No, its been much more revealing than I expected.

Well we've revealed that UKIP don't have racist policies.

We've also revealed a trait of remainers is to misinterpret, twist and misquote people to fit their agenda.

Apart from the one posted a page or so back. Here it is again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-far...

We've revealed many here who see no issue with this kind of discrimination.

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

don'tbesilly said:

bmw535i said:

don'tbesilly said:

I don't know specifically why they bent the rules, and don't really give a sh*ite, but a quick scan of the article gives a number of clues.

I guess tolerance and a sense of fairness and forgiveness doesn't feature in some remainers heads, despite their pleas for tolerance from others.

Hey ho!

The rules didn't exist when he joined. Nothing to forgive here.

I don't think this debate on racism and the one on immigration a few days ago have gone as the remainers planned

A very quick google reveals that:

Heale was a member of the NF for more than a year in the 70's.
On leaving the NF, Heale became a member of the Tory party, and was a member for 20 years.
Heale ended his relationship with the Tories when he defected to UKIP.

One has to wonder whether Heale was an *alleged racist whilst a Tory, if he was, why did the Tories allow an *alleged racist to be a member of the Tory party, and for twenty years?

• Can anyone prove he was a racist?

I don't know, nor really care, but I guess now the above is revealed, the Tories are racist as are UKIP, and I support UKIP, and am also a racist because I've typed UKIP!

Do you think anyone who was in the NF should be in mainstream politics?

Do you think people that join the NF are racist?

Can you become a reformed racist?

What do you think attracted him to UKIP?

1.Do you think anyone who was in the NF should be in mainstream politics?

Ask the Tories, he was a member for 20 Years after leaving the NF

2.Do you think people that join the NF are racist?

I don't know any NF members to ask, do you?

3.Can you become a reformed racist?

I don't know, not ever having been one.
Can you prove Heale was a racist?
If not Heale could accuse you of libel,put up or shut up.

4.What do you think attracted him to UKIP?

Why would I know?
If you really want to know ask the man himself.

[jonnyb]

///ajd said:

bmw535i said:

///ajd said:

No, its been much more revealing than I expected.

Well we've revealed that UKIP don't have racist policies.

We've also revealed a trait of remainers is to misinterpret, twist and misquote people to fit their agenda.

Apart from the one posted a page or so back. Here it is again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-far...

We've revealed many here who see no issue with this kind of discrimination.

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

Apart from the one posted a page or so back. Here it is again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-far...

We've revealed many here who see no issue with this kind of discrimination.

Dan Hodges

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/dan-hodges/

I warned you about this use of stupid propoganda. Some of the rubbish that blokes comes out with is mental - it's almost at your level.

[alfie2244]

jonnyb said:

///ajd said:

bmw535i said:

///ajd said:

No, its been much more revealing than I expected.

Well we've revealed that UKIP don't have racist policies.

We've also revealed a trait of remainers is to misinterpret, twist and misquote people to fit their agenda.

Apart from the one posted a page or so back. Here it is again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-far...

We've revealed many here who see no issue with this kind of discrimination.

Dan Hodges ....fook me your'e desperate 3ajd

eta "Labour has a racism problem."......whoda thunkit?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12...

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 4th December 19:47

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 4th December 19:48

[FiF]

Ahem, something written for Huffington post in 2013 link


On immigration, we asked voters whether they felt immigrants jumped the queue for council housing, whether they were responsible for most crime and whether the government should repatriate migrants. Support for the first two certainly counts as intolerance, as the evidence available suggests migrants are less, not more, likely to claim for council housing or commit crime. Ukip support for all of these items was around 10 percentage points below BNP support, but around 15 percentage points above support among Conservative voters and 20-30 points above support among Labour and Lib Dem supporters.

[///ajd]

don'tbesilly said:

1.Do you think anyone who was in the NF should be in mainstream politics?

Ask the Tories, he was a member for 20 Years after leaving the NF

2.Do you think people that join the NF are racist?

I don't know any NF members to ask, do you?

3.Can you become a reformed racist?

I don't know, not ever having been one.
Can you prove Heale was a racist?
If not Heale could accuse you of libel,put up or shut up.

4.What do you think attracted him to UKIP?

Why would I know?
If you really want to know ask the man himself.

Just looking at 2.

Are you unsure if the NF are a racist outfit?
Do you not think "being racist" is up there with reasons to join?

Think carefully about dodging this question. I won't ask again, I'll just assume.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Do you think anyone who was in the NF should be in mainstream politics?

Do you think people that join the NF are racist?

Can you become a reformed racist?

What do you think attracted him to UKIP?

Labour don't mind ex BNP people to knowingly represent them in elections.

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

Just looking at 2.

Are you unsure if the NF are a racist outfit?
Do you not think "being racist" is up there with reasons to join?

Think carefully about dodging this question. I won't ask again, I'll just assume.

Have you found a racist UKIP policy yet? I won't ask again, I'll just assume you're not very bright.

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

don'tbesilly said:

1.Do you think anyone who was in the NF should be in mainstream politics?

Ask the Tories, he was a member for 20 Years after leaving the NF

2.Do you think people that join the NF are racist?

I don't know any NF members to ask, do you?

3.Can you become a reformed racist?

I don't know, not ever having been one.
Can you prove Heale was a racist?
If not Heale could accuse you of libel,put up or shut up.

4.What do you think attracted him to UKIP?

Why would I know?
If you really want to know ask the man himself.

Just looking at 2.

Are you unsure if the NF are a racist outfit?
Do you not think "being racist" is up there with reasons to join?

Think carefully about dodging this question. I won't ask again, I'll just assume.

I've thought, and..........

Assume what you like, you really think I give 2/3 or any f*cks what you think

[Elysium]

bmw535i said:

Elysium said:

I assume you are trying to differentiate between UKIP the party and UKIP's members. A number of the latter have very clearly engaged in racist antics, which is shown in the video. The key point is that in some cases they have also been allowed to stand as candidates.

I don't think they have any racist policies or present as a racist party. I do think it is a fact that they have attracted racist members and that this was initially condoned by the party, before they later reinvented themselves as mainstream. The documentary gives an insight into that process from the perspective of some of those involved.

Ok so we agree UKIP don't have racist policies. Thank you. That's all I was asking.

No. If that was all you had asked I would not have bothered posting the video.

What you actually said was:

bmw535i said:

Ok, lets debate.....

Can you give one of their "unpleasant policies"?

Can you show an example of a "racist antic"?

Can you evidence UKIPs racist history?

Actual words from the horses mouth rather than your silly left wing propaganda stuff if you would please.

The video provides plenty of evidence of racist history and antics. But you seem to have forgotten that you asked about that. Almost as if you don't want to know about it or acknowledge it?

Racism has been associated with UKIP from the outset. Clearly evidenced by Robert Kilroy-Silks descent from stardom. After leaving UKIP he founded Veritas, which went on to become the English Democrats welcoming racists from many less salubrious organisations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3383589.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas_(political_p...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats

The documentary I linked to shows them in the process of reinvention, trying to clear away this history. However, teaching people not to say racist things is not the same as getting rid of racism. I would never associate myself with UKIP as I suspect this will always be an undercurrent among many members.

As to 'unpleasant policies', well I would not describe Farage's referendum poster as racist, but I would certainly say that it was unpleasant, and perhaps even that it has the potential to insight racial hatred.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/n...

I agree with AJD that this discussion has been enlightening. Sometimes people reveal aspects of themselves as much by the things they do not say as by the things they do.

[combi14]

///ajd said:

Just looking at 2.

Are you unsure if the NF are a racist outfit?
Do you not think "being racist" is up there with reasons to join?

Think carefully about dodging this question. I won't ask again, I'll just assume.

So let me get this straight...

Racist... national front
Thick racist... Britain first
Underachieving racist... BNP
Football supporting racist.....EDL
Facist racist .....WDL
Really old racists.....Blackshirts
Militant Racist.......Trade Unions Against Immigration
Nostalgic racist... national socialist movement


Have I missed any groups?

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

The video provides plenty of evidence of racist history and antics. But you seem to have forgotten that you asked about that. Almost as if you don't want to know about it or acknowledge it?

Racism has been associated with UKIP from the outset. Clearly evidenced by Robert Kilroy-Silks descent from stardom. After leaving UKIP he founded Veritas, which went on to become the English Democrats welcoming racists from many less salubrious organisations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3383589.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas_(political_p...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats

The documentary I linked to shows them in the process of reinvention, trying to clear away this history. However, teaching people not to say racist things is not the same as getting rid of racism. I would never associate myself with UKIP as I suspect this will always be an undercurrent among many members.

As to 'unpleasant policies', well I would not describe Farage's referendum poster as racist, but I would certainly say that it was unpleasant, and perhaps even that it has the potential to insight racial hatred.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/n...

I agree with AJD that this discussion has been enlightening. Sometimes people reveal things as much by the things they do not say as by the things they say.

Being smart enough to avoid admitting to racism does not mean that someone is not a racist.

I had moved on from the antics and history as I don't see any evidence in it. I continued to question the policy part, but it also turns out there isn't any.

I'm not sure what you're rambling about at the end there I'm afraid. Something about not saying racist things makes you a racist - is that it?

[Elysium]

bmw535i said:

Elysium said:

The video provides plenty of evidence of racist history and antics. But you seem to have forgotten that you asked about that. Almost as if you don't want to know about it or acknowledge it?

Racism has been associated with UKIP from the outset. Clearly evidenced by Robert Kilroy-Silks descent from stardom. After leaving UKIP he founded Veritas, which went on to become the English Democrats welcoming racists from many less salubrious organisations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3383589.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas_(political_p...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats

The documentary I linked to shows them in the process of reinvention, trying to clear away this history. However, teaching people not to say racist things is not the same as getting rid of racism. I would never associate myself with UKIP as I suspect this will always be an undercurrent among many members.

As to 'unpleasant policies', well I would not describe Farage's referendum poster as racist, but I would certainly say that it was unpleasant, and perhaps even that it has the potential to insight racial hatred.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/n...

I agree with AJD that this discussion has been enlightening. Sometimes people reveal things as much by the things they do not say as by the things they say.

Being smart enough to avoid admitting to racism does not mean that someone is not a racist.

I had moved on from the antics and history as I don't see any evidence in it. I continued to question the policy part, but it also turns out there isn't any.

I'm not sure what you're rambling about at the end there I'm afraid. Something about not saying racist things makes you a racist - is that it?

You moved on despite the evidence being handed to you on a plate. People can learn to avoid saying things that reveal them to be racist. That does not mean they are not racist.

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

You moved on despite the evidence being handed to you on a plate. People can learn to avoid saying things that reveal them to be racist. That does not mean they are not racist.

I suppose "evidence" is subjective. At least we agree that UKIP don't have racist policies.

I suppose we must treat everyone as a racist then - just in case they are but haven't said anything racist. I now understand why you say the things you do

[Elysium]

bmw535i said:

Elysium said:

You moved on despite the evidence being handed to you on a plate. People can learn to avoid saying things that reveal them to be racist. That does not mean they are not racist.

I suppose "evidence" is subjective. At least we agree that UKIP don't have racist policies.

I suppose we must treat everyone as a racist then - just in case they are but haven't said anything racist. I now understand why you say the things you do

No. I don't think you do understand. I don't assume anyone is racist. However, it is natural to become suspicious of people who want to ignore evidence of racism when it is presented to them.

Edited by Elysium on Sunday 4th December 20:23