Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
A.J.M said:
The latest figures published were 2013-14, and pulled from the GERS report
Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
Your saying Scotland generates 54bn in tax but gets 30bn to spend that's a 24bn gap. Or am I missing something. Oh an oil an gas is what 6bn a year Hmmm hardly a huge contributor to uk wealth overall.Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
///ajd said:
NoNeed said:
Has the Troll been into say that the SNP putting off repairs to the fourth road bridge since 2009, putting it in private hands and making a complete hash of the thing is good governance by the nats yet?
Not yet. I thinking he is hoping no-one will notice the 'link'. Doh!Well it must've been the nasty Tories privatising the bridge operations, and taking it out of the hands of the locally elected folks...
Gecko1978 said:
Your saying Scotland generates 54bn in tax but gets 30bn to spend that's a 24bn gap. Or am I missing something. Oh an oil an gas is what 6bn a year Hmmm hardly a huge contributor to uk wealth overall.
This year predicted to be negative tax income .... 2014/15 & 2015/16 more of he same Xxxx
Gecko1978 said:
A.J.M said:
The latest figures published were 2013-14, and pulled from the GERS report
Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
Your saying Scotland generates 54bn in tax but gets 30bn to spend that's a 24bn gap. Or am I missing something. Oh an oil an gas is what 6bn a year Hmmm hardly a huge contributor to uk wealth overall.Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
simoid said:
Gecko1978 said:
A.J.M said:
The latest figures published were 2013-14, and pulled from the GERS report
Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
Your saying Scotland generates 54bn in tax but gets 30bn to spend that's a 24bn gap. Or am I missing something. Oh an oil an gas is what 6bn a year Hmmm hardly a huge contributor to uk wealth overall.Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
total public spending in Scotland = £65.2bn.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267
Of course the UK as a whole spends much more than it receives in tax too.
Edited by BlackLabel on Sunday 6th December 23:47
SNP MP who campaigned against tax avoidance is under investigation for tax avoidance....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12036...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12036...
A.J.M said:
The latest figures published were 2013-14, and pulled from the GERS report
Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
Interesting, but the explicit income received via the Scottish Rate of Income Tax will hopefully put paid to a lot of the ambiguity around these figures. Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
BlackLabel said:
simoid said:
Gecko1978 said:
A.J.M said:
The latest figures published were 2013-14, and pulled from the GERS report
Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
Your saying Scotland generates 54bn in tax but gets 30bn to spend that's a 24bn gap. Or am I missing something. Oh an oil an gas is what 6bn a year Hmmm hardly a huge contributor to uk wealth overall.Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
total public spending in Scotland = £65.2bn.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267
Of course the UK as a whole spends much more than it receives in tax too.
Edited by BlackLabel on Sunday 6th December 23:47
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
At least you're making a point rather than just posting negative stuff.
It isn't our fault if the SNP takes actions that are in the whole negative and just plain stupid. Or indeed Out and out lies. I will give you 1 item. You say TRUTH or LIE ( No other comments )
So... Here goes.
TRUTH OR LIE.... QUESTION 1
The Former Alex Salmond adviser Alex Bell says current case for Scots independence is dead because the SNP LIED about the financial case for an independent Scotland
So Edinburger.... WAS ALEX BELL TELLING THE TRUTH OR WAS IT A LIE.
Over to you ... to deflect... or answer TRUTH or LIE.
My answer - neither, or probably more accurately a bit of both.
The truth is I haven't really been following this story. If what you say above is true then on face value I'd say this Alex Bell has little credibility as he was obviously involved in building and presenting the financial case. But what is the current case for Scots independence? There is no current case. The referendum was in the past. The economic and the political landscapes have changed considerably since the referendum.
Let's be honest here - is there a case for independence today? Probably not. Will there be a case for independence in three years time? Who knows.
It's a great thing hindsight, eh?
NoNeed said:
Troubleatmill said:
Given your reputation for fecking off after a 1 line reply.... let's play a game
I will give you 1 item. You say TRUTH or LIE ( No other comments )
So... Here goes.
TRUTH OR LIE.... QUESTION 1
The Former Alex Salmond adviser Alex Bell says current case for Scots independence is dead because the SNP LIED about the financial case for an independent Scotland
So Edinburger.... WAS ALEX BELL TELLING THE TRUTH OR WAS IT A LIE.
Over to you ... to deflect... or answer TRUTH or LIE.
He'll be back with the usual Squirrel then when challenged, I'm going to guess that he'll say he has been busy and not caught up with the whole thread yet and hope it goes away and not respond.I will give you 1 item. You say TRUTH or LIE ( No other comments )
So... Here goes.
TRUTH OR LIE.... QUESTION 1
The Former Alex Salmond adviser Alex Bell says current case for Scots independence is dead because the SNP LIED about the financial case for an independent Scotland
So Edinburger.... WAS ALEX BELL TELLING THE TRUTH OR WAS IT A LIE.
Over to you ... to deflect... or answer TRUTH or LIE.
Edinburger said:
The economic and the political landscapes have changed considerably since the referendum.
Let's be honest here - is there a case for independence today? Probably not. Will there be a case for independence in three years time? Who knows.
It's a great thing hindsight, eh?
Hindsight?Let's be honest here - is there a case for independence today? Probably not. Will there be a case for independence in three years time? Who knows.
It's a great thing hindsight, eh?
That must be an SNP thing because lots of us were pointing out the folly from the start.
And you might not think there's currently a case but I bet Sturgeon would disagree. And given half a chance she'll be all over it again.
Edinburger said:
Have I woke up in Volume 1...?!
No, you're here in the real world. In volume 7. Where all available evidence points towards Scotland averaging a deficit of £8bn-10bn for most of the last decade.Unless you have any evidence to dispute or contradict that, which I have asked you for numerous times, I suggest that you should can your dissent and questioning of the figure.
I will directly ask you again - do you have any evidence that Scotland's tax revenue is higher than public spending?
simoid said:
I will directly ask you again - do you have any evidence that Scotland's tax revenue is higher than public spending?
Of course he doesn't because there is no evidence. The White Paper figures cherrypicked a couple of years when returns from oil revenue (at peak production) put Scotland's net contribution in the black. The SNP's case was that this was the norm rather than the exception, and the figures would rise based on increasing oil prices.A lie backed up by wishful thinking.
Edinburger said:
A.J.M said:
The latest figures published were 2013-14, and pulled from the GERS report
Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
Interesting, but the explicit income received via the Scottish Rate of Income Tax will hopefully put paid to a lot of the ambiguity around these figures. Scotland has a tax income of just short of £54Bn (including Oil + Gas)
Without O+G income, this figure drops to £49.9Bn
And these figures don't include Scottish exports from English Sea ports, nor companies operating in Scotland with HQ based in England
In return, Scotland received back "approx" £30Bn
Though the actual figure is not disclosed, it is widely regarded as around this figure
And for next year, Westminster has cut the budget by nearly £2Bn, widening the gap even further...
£12Bn is a fairly conservative figure
A mate who's a rabid snp person has put this load of tripe up on another place I visit.
In response to a claimed 12 billion pound that Westminister take off Scotland and don't pay back.
Original debate was over the forth bridge being closed and the snp knowing 5 years ago the failed part needed a redesign to accommodate the over stress it was experiencing. Said work was never done and cancelled on 2 occasions.
In which case it means that 2013/14 the Scottish deficit was near on 20% compared to a UK average of 5-6%. That's massively worse & 2013/14 doesn't have the impact of oil revenue plummeting from $115 to $48 per barrel. So the next GERS will be very interesting indeed.
Given above it would mean over 22% deficit plus the UK govt have given further tax breaks to help the oil industry thus making that value much worse.
Clearly no Scot in their right mind would want FFA given these numbers and I can understand them back stepping as the tax revenues are materially below what is expected so massive income tax increases to close the gap or Scotland actually borrowing money in their own name but hen interest payments increase resulting in further structural deficit.
Oddly SNP want to spend more - heck you already are and have done for decades so get over it hard truth is going to hurt now.
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
The economic and the political landscapes have changed considerably since the referendum.
Let's be honest here - is there a case for independence today? Probably not. Will there be a case for independence in three years time? Who knows.
It's a great thing hindsight, eh?
Hindsight?Let's be honest here - is there a case for independence today? Probably not. Will there be a case for independence in three years time? Who knows.
It's a great thing hindsight, eh?
That must be an SNP thing because lots of us were pointing out the folly from the start.
And you might not think there's currently a case but I bet Sturgeon would disagree. And given half a chance she'll be all over it again.
The only way forward for the SNP is to deliver at home but it's performance so far is far from convincing. What are the chances of an improvement - not much from what I can see. It is surely just a matter of time now.
Garvin said:
The SNP has now put itself between a rock and a hard place and now has to 'duck and dive' to retain power - a lot of their behaviour in Parliament is, to my mind, nothing more than distraction politics to keep focuses on the SNP performance outside Scotland rather than its internal governmental successes!!!
The only way forward for the SNP is to deliver at home but it's performance so far is far from convincing. What are the chances of an improvement - not much from what I can see. It is surely just a matter of time now.
That has pretty much been the SNP modus operandi from day 1 of their time in charge of the Scottish Government. Alex Bell's most damning criticism of the SNP wasn't so much to do with the details of their case for independence but that they are and always have been thin on policy.The only way forward for the SNP is to deliver at home but it's performance so far is far from convincing. What are the chances of an improvement - not much from what I can see. It is surely just a matter of time now.
Their initial popularity stemmed from applying some universal benefits such as free prescriptions, free tuition fees and removal of road tolls - 'sweeteners' thrown into the crowd to keep the mob happy and give the impression of benevolence, but that isn't a long term approach to policy. Popularism and the distraction route failed to win them independence and has now left them with some real headaches in the areas they chose to cut funding to in order to bribe the electorate.
They are freewheeling at the moment on the back of their extended popularity, but their policy inadequacy is now catching up with them and leaving them little room to deal with the fallout.
The loyal support who only 'engaged' with politics on the back of the single issue will of course believe every piece of crap and propaganda spouted by their cult heroes because they lack the intellectual drive and interest to investigate the matters further, but I'm sure there are people who were stuck in 10 mile tailbacks this morning or packed into overcrowded trains and will be repeating the experience every working day for the foreseeable future wondering 'who exactly caused this, and who is responsible for fixing it...'?
Edited by r11co on Monday 7th December 14:05
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