The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[vaud]

swanny71 said:

So many stupid, selfish, entitled people in America.
Too many useless, bought & paid for morally corrupt politicians governing them.

“Greatest country in the world”? - no, it’s fked.

It's great in many ways.

Some of the greatest national parks. Great diversity of food. Some truly lovely, hospitable people for relative strangers.

Equally appalling in others. This sums it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIpKfw17-yY

[paulguitar]

swanny71 said:

“Greatest country in the world”? - no, it’s fked.

I was discussing this with my brother earlier today. I am reluctantly starting to suspect that America is too far gone now to recover. I'd genuinely not be surprised if they end up fairly soon in a dictatorship, a civil war, or both.

I've spent most of the last 21 years there, and it is a place I have broadly always loved. I grew up thinking of the USA as a place to look up to, they made the Saturn V rocket and put men on the moon. What I see now makes me feel sad, and kind of sick.

[NMNeil]

Gweeds said:

simo1863 said:

So you're not against outright bans, just a more extensive vetting process?

I’m for both. Not that it’s particularly relevant.

I’m interested to know why something like this isn’t possible to do in the US.

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

[NMNeil]

swanny71 said:

So many stupid, selfish, entitled people in America.
Too many useless, bought & paid for morally corrupt politicians governing them.

“Greatest country in the world”? - no, it’s fked.

On that I have to agree.

[swanny71]

paulguitar said:

I was discussing this with my brother earlier today. I am reluctantly starting to suspect that America is too far gone now to recover. I'd genuinely not be surprised if they end up fairly soon in a dictatorship, a civil war, or both.

I've spent most of the last 21 years there, and it is a place I have broadly always loved. I grew up thinking of the USA as a place to look up to, they made the Saturn V rocket and put men on the moon. What I see now makes me feel sad, and kind of sick.

Yep, I worked/visited there many times between mid-90’s and 2015 and thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of that time. Several of my absolute favourite ‘things’ are American (Saturn V, Fenway Park, Chrysler Building etc.)
No desire to go back now unless I absolutely have to.

[NMNeil]

paulguitar said:

I was discussing this with my brother earlier today. I am reluctantly starting to suspect that America is too far gone now to recover. I'd genuinely not be surprised if they end up fairly soon in a dictatorship, a civil war, or both.

I've spent most of the last 21 years there, and it is a place I have broadly always loved. I grew up thinking of the USA as a place to look up to, they made the Saturn V rocket and put men on the moon. What I see now makes me feel sad, and kind of sick.

And now we have the copy cats, possibly looking for their 15 minutes of fame/infamy on Farcebook and Youtube.
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/north-texas-sc...
Maybe we start looking at social media as one of the causes of all the madness in the US.

[croyde]

When I look around me when I'm driving and see all the thick morons that have somehow got a driving licence.

Then think what if they were all allowed to have guns.

That's America.

Feck Me!

[bigandclever]

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

15 questions, and that’s difficult is it?

Edited by bigandclever on Friday 27th May 21:54

[Gweeds]

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

I had fill out a longer form for a passport. If you think that’s enough it’s telling. Compare with Japan or Israel for example. Just two from today.

Now tell me. Is that a standard form across the country. Or just where you are.

[ATG]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

MKnight702 said:

Gary C said:

I would ban both of them.

And any rifle that carries more than two rounds.

and handguns.

If a people can't handle its toys, its time they are taken away.

So what you are saying is everyone should be punished for the actions of a few?

Yes. It's strict gun control or lives. Pick one.

I think we all know the answer though.

There are plenty of countries that don't ban these guns outright and also don't have a massive problem with their misuse. It isn't a case of one or the other.

[HM-2]

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.

Presumably not if you purchase a privately sold firearm from another individual?
Given that most firearms used in mass shootings are "legally" owned, it sort of suggests that the "legal ownership" framework isn't fit for purpose.

[jakesmith]

ATG said:

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

MKnight702 said:

Gary C said:

I would ban both of them.

And any rifle that carries more than two rounds.

and handguns.

If a people can't handle its toys, its time they are taken away.

So what you are saying is everyone should be punished for the actions of a few?

Yes. It's strict gun control or lives. Pick one.

I think we all know the answer though.

There are plenty of countries that don't ban these guns outright and also don't have a massive problem with their misuse. It isn't a case of one or the other.

Might be easier to remove guns, than address the cultural and social issues that have lead to their usage levels though, just being practical.

I’m my opinion Americans are absolutely brainwashed on this topic. There is no need for guns. The government has the capability to overrun the people anyway with ease so that’s not valid reason for people to have them. Many global countries share borders with high crime countries so that’s not a reason to say they can’t stop the trafficking. The politicians and corporations are more concerned with money than dead children.

Imagine your kids being shot at school, in absolute terror for an hour then being murdered, parents turning up at the school being handcuffed at the scene. And it’s ‘political point scoring’ to ask why this only happens in America apparently.

[captain_cynic]

Gweeds said:

I had fill out a longer form for a passport. If you think that’s enough it’s telling. Compare with Japan or Israel for example. Just two from today.

Now tell me. Is that a standard form across the country. Or just where you are.

As a foreigner, you have to fill in a longer form to enter the US (the ESTA).

[HM-2]

captain_cynic said:

Gweeds said:

I had fill out a longer form for a passport. If you think that’s enough it’s telling. Compare with Japan or Israel for example. Just two from today.

Now tell me. Is that a standard form across the country. Or just where you are.

As a foreigner, you have to fill in a longer form to enter the US (the ESTA).

I've filled out longer forms for a mobile phone contract.

[captain_cynic]

HM-2 said:

captain_cynic said:

Gweeds said:

I had fill out a longer form for a passport. If you think that’s enough it’s telling. Compare with Japan or Israel for example. Just two from today.

Now tell me. Is that a standard form across the country. Or just where you are.

As a foreigner, you have to fill in a longer form to enter the US (the ESTA).

I've filled out longer forms for a mobile phone contract.

Not to turn this into the 4 Yorkshiremen skit but, I've filled out the forms to immigrate and a second time to naturalise in the UK, I still don't think that would be sufficient to own an assault rifle.

[unident]

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

Yeah, there’s no fooling that system. It’s literally and figuratively bulletproof

[TwigtheWonderkid]

MKnight702 said:

Well obviously, it must be the fault of the inanimate object, so clearly we should ban knives, guns and cars.



The US needs to tackle the root of the problem, the OWNERS, not the tool.

I get it. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" which is true. It's also true that toasters don't make toast, people make toast. But toasters allow people to make toast very quickly and efficiently. You can be absolutely sure that without toasters, we'd eat a hell of a lot less toast. If we had to go to the faff of impaling the bread on a toasting fork and holding it over a heat source for 15 minutes.

Guns might not kill people, but they allow people to kill people with a ruthless efficiency that could never be matched by knives or baseball bats.

If the govt decided, for whatever reason, it wanted us not to eat toast, they would ban toasters straight away. No one would be saying "but toasters don't make toast, people make toast, so there's no point in banning them". Because if they did, everyone else would think they were a moron.

[vaud]

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

Clearly a system that is fit for purpose and working really well.

Or not.

[Evanivitch]

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

I guess being illiterate would make filling out a simple form difficult.

[tangerine_sedge]

vaud said:

NMNeil said:

When I buy a gun I have to fill out one of these.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
This negates the 'easy to get' rhetoric, because they aren't.
If I buy a gun online it can't be shipped directly to me, it has to be shipped to someone with a Federal Dealers license, such as my local gun shop.
What would you add to the form?

Clearly a system that is fit for purpose and working really well.

Or not.

That information isn't even allowed to be put in a database, so it's mostly pointless capturing it in the first place. I'm not sure what the authorities even do with that information if they can't search it.