Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[Chimune]

[Talksteer]

Steve vRS said:

DuncsGTi said:

Steve vRS said:

Ironic that some of the crews being trained have more combat experience than the trainers.

And yet every one of the Ukr troops i met were genuinely grateful for the training being delivered. The training team was largely drawn from SNCOs with a wealth of experience of combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some on tanks, some other vehicles, some dismounted.

Many of them were soldiers due to circumstance. They joined to defend their country and have been involved in some pretty brutal combat. British experience in the last 20 years may be different to the current Ukr conflict but just as brutal at various points.

I wasn’t in any way belittling the Ukrainian soldiers, professional or accidental, or the British trainers. Upmost respect for all of them.

I remember reading a story around UK force training with Ukrainians after 2014 but before the current conflict. The UK small unit tactics and procedures were based around Afghanistan, the Ukrainians comments were that if you stayed in contact as long as the UK units did they would attract artillery strikes and that the UK artillery procedures which involved deconfliction with aircraft and damage assessments were far too slow.

Obviously the UK tactics and from 90's and earlier were specifically design to take on WarPac forces so would probably be effective on the Ukrainian battlefield.

[Jhonno]

Chimune said:

[Gecko1978]

Jhonno said:

Chimune said:

Sorry what am I missing here

[vaud]

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1640368182371...

neat film

[DuncsGTi]

Steve vRS said:

I wasn’t in any way belittling the Ukrainian soldiers, professional or accidental, or the British trainers. Upmost respect for all of them.

Apologies, just a little bite. Dealing with these tanks and crews getting to Ukr in good order has been a large part of my workload for a few months now. I feel pretty passionate about it.

Talksteer said:

I remember reading a story around UK force training with Ukrainians after 2014 but before the current conflict. The UK small unit tactics and procedures were based around Afghanistan, the Ukrainians comments were that if you stayed in contact as long as the UK units did they would attract artillery strikes and that the UK artillery procedures which involved deconfliction with aircraft and damage assessments were far too slow.

Obviously the UK tactics and from 90's and earlier were specifically design to take on WarPac forces so would probably be effective on the Ukrainian battlefield.

I can absolutely see and understand that point of view, much of the UKs recent experience is in the complex operating environment fighting a very different COIN war.

The armoured battle is a fast moving thing and we still train to fight that way however we did lose some of our focus and experience through the Afghan era

[8bit]

Gecko1978 said:

Jhonno said:

Chimune said:

Sorry what am I missing here

Kaliningrad is a Russian territory. That aircraft track is a US surveillance jet, trolling the Russians by flying circles round Kaliningrad. They don't like it up 'em.

[mondeoman]

DuncsGTi said:

Steve vRS said:

I wasn’t in any way belittling the Ukrainian soldiers, professional or accidental, or the British trainers. Upmost respect for all of them.

Apologies, just a little bite. Dealing with these tanks and crews getting to Ukr in good order has been a large part of my workload for a few months now. I feel pretty passionate about it.

[Adam.]

this is the definition of "up 'em"

myvision said:

8 killed, 66 injured as Russia attacks 9 Ukrainian regions over past 24 hours

https://kyivindependent.com/8-killed-66-injured-as...

I can't get excited about a plane circling taking pictures, when UKR sems powerless to stop this endless destruction and deaths.

[Biggy Stardust]

Adam. said:

I can't get excited about a plane circling taking pictures, when UKR sems powerless to stop this endless destruction and deaths.

Newsflash- they got invaded by their bigger neighbour. They decided to not just lie down & act like a doormat. They are quite literally fighting for their existence.

[Adam.]

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious Biggy

My frustration is we are not doing more to stop the artillery/drone attacks. Many said Russia would run out of these munitions but it doesn't seem to be the case

[dukeboy749r]

DuncsGTi said:

Steve vRS said:

I wasn’t in any way belittling the Ukrainian soldiers, professional or accidental, or the British trainers. Upmost respect for all of them.

Apologies, just a little bite. Dealing with these tanks and crews getting to Ukr in good order has been a large part of my workload for a few months now. I feel pretty passionate about it.

Talksteer said:

I remember reading a story around UK force training with Ukrainians after 2014 but before the current conflict. The UK small unit tactics and procedures were based around Afghanistan, the Ukrainians comments were that if you stayed in contact as long as the UK units did they would attract artillery strikes and that the UK artillery procedures which involved deconfliction with aircraft and damage assessments were far too slow.

Obviously the UK tactics and from 90's and earlier were specifically design to take on WarPac forces so would probably be effective on the Ukrainian battlefield.

I can absolutely see and understand that point of view, much of the UKs recent experience is in the complex operating environment fighting a very different COIN war.

The armoured battle is a fast moving thing and we still train to fight that way however we did lose some of our focus and experience through the Afghan era

We may no longer be a very big military power, but the level of professionalism and proper training we can provide is both heartening to watch and in complete contrast to that which the Russians dole out to their own people (conscripts) who get the square root of sfa and then get sent to the frontline

[aeropilot]

Adam. said:

this is the definition of "up 'em"

myvision said:

8 killed, 66 injured as Russia attacks 9 Ukrainian regions over past 24 hours

https://kyivindependent.com/8-killed-66-injured-as...

I can't get excited about a plane circling taking pictures, when UKR sems powerless to stop this endless destruction and deaths.

It's not taking pictures.
It's gathering very important intelligence from Russian communications, sigs and data traffic, about what they are doing, or preparing for.....which is likely being used to support Ukraine, as well as NATO defense preparations.

[Adam.]

aeropilot said:

It's not taking pictures.
It's gathering very important intelligence from Russian communications, sigs and data traffic, about what they are doing, or preparing for.....which is likely being used to support Ukraine, as well as NATO defense preparations.

It was a euphemism. Of course its doing good work, I just don't understnad the excitement given other news today

[pinchmeimdreamin]

Adam. said:

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious Biggy

My frustration is we are not doing more to stop the artillery/drone attacks. Many said Russia would run out of these munitions but it doesn't seem to be the case

They are running out of cruise missiles, so they have resorted to using mortars and artillery to target civilians now.

[RichFN2]

Adam. said:

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious Biggy

My frustration is we are not doing more to stop the artillery/drone attacks. Many said Russia would run out of these munitions but it doesn't seem to be the case

To my limited knowledge there is nothing to intercept artillery fire, its just a shell fired out of a long canon. Unfortunately Russia has a massive stockpile of these.

The drones are able to fly too low and slow for most air defence systems which are designed to intercept missiles, planes etc.

I believe Germany has donated a few systems that can take out the drones, but they fire bullets rather than guided missiles and do not have the range of other systems.

[TEKNOPUG]

dukeboy749r said:

We may no longer be a very big military power...

Depends who you compare us to....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

[Adam.]

RichFN2 said:

To my limited knowledge there is nothing to intercept artillery fire, its just a shell fired out of a long canon. Unfortunately Russia has a massive stockpile of these.

The drones are able to fly too low and slow for most air defence systems which are designed to intercept missiles, planes etc.

I believe Germany has donated a few systems that can take out the drones, but they fire bullets rather than guided missiles and do not have the range of other systems.

Thanks for the answer, the link says:

"According to the report, Russia struck a total of 124 settlements using mortars, tanks, artillery, S-300 missiles, multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS), Kh-31 cruise missiles, drones, and tactical aviation."

Mortars - standard daily practice I would think
Tanks - cant fire very far, can UKR drones not locate and then MLRS destroy? I guess info is not real time enough
Artillery - as above but even further back
S-300 - re-purposed SAMs? Desperate I guess
They obv still have some cruise missiles

[8bit]

Adam. said:

aeropilot said:

It's not taking pictures.
It's gathering very important intelligence from Russian communications, sigs and data traffic, about what they are doing, or preparing for.....which is likely being used to support Ukraine, as well as NATO defense preparations.

It was a euphemism. Of course its doing good work, I just don't understnad the excitement given other news today

It's possible to be appalled by the horrendous atrocities committed by Russia on a daily basis, and lightly amused by the US surveillance jet circling a Russian enclave at the same time, you know. Also, what aeropilot said - the US and NATO will be keeping as close an eye as possible on any and all Russian-controlled territory where there are Russian military or nuclear facilities installed.

[HM-2]

Adam. said:

RichFN2 said:

To my limited knowledge there is nothing to intercept artillery fire, its just a shell fired out of a long canon. Unfortunately Russia has a massive stockpile of these.

The drones are able to fly too low and slow for most air defence systems which are designed to intercept missiles, planes etc.

I believe Germany has donated a few systems that can take out the drones, but they fire bullets rather than guided missiles and do not have the range of other systems.

Thanks for the answer, the link says:

"According to the report, Russia struck a total of 124 settlements using mortars, tanks, artillery, S-300 missiles, multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS), Kh-31 cruise missiles, drones, and tactical aviation."

Mortars - standard daily practice I would think
Tanks - cant fire very far, can UKR drones not locate and then MLRS destroy? I guess info is not real time enough
Artillery - as above but even further back
S-300 - re-purposed SAMs? Desperate I guess
They obv still have some cruise missiles

IIRC, the Kh-31 is an anti-radiation/anti-ship missile rather than anything more "normal" as a ground attach munition.