Tories the future (part1)
Discussion
turbobloke said:
"...destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs, had people evicted from their homes and led to the destruction of businesses for the sake of his failed European policy..."
That blast from the Major past sounds like today with the EU and Greece, Spain et al.
Plus ça change.
It's a massive lie, of course, like most of the rubbish from the Leave side. Unemployment was 3 million when Major became PM. When he left office it was 1.7 million.That blast from the Major past sounds like today with the EU and Greece, Spain et al.
Plus ça change.
Zod said:
turbobloke said:
"...destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs, had people evicted from their homes and led to the destruction of businesses for the sake of his failed European policy..."
That blast from the Major past sounds like today with the EU and Greece, Spain et al.
Plus ça change.
It's a massive lie, of course, like most of the rubbish from the Leave side. Unemployment was 3 million when Major became PM. When he left office it was 1.7 million.That blast from the Major past sounds like today with the EU and Greece, Spain et al.
Plus ça change.
Britain joined the ERM during Margaret Thatcher's premiership in 1990 and crashed out in 1992.
Administrative figures for unemployment in the relevant period from the Government Statistical Service are:
Jan 1990 1,687,045
Jan 1991 1,959,747
Jan 1992 2,673.864
Jan 1993 3,062,065
Jan 1994 2,889,268
As you and I may well disagree on what the above numbers imply, I'll leave it to other PHers to make their own minds up, not least as to whether 1990-1994 is a better period to consult about ERM in-out than the Major premiership 1990-1997.
The ERM fiasco cost UK plc £4bn and Major wanted to quit as a result, but says was talked round.
The Independent said:
John Major, the Prime Minister at the time of Black Wednesday, disclosed last night that he wrote a resignation letter to the Queen but was talked out of sending it by 'one or two' very senior colleagues. "The truth of the matter is, I have never been sure whether that was the right decision to have taken," he said.
As to Leave talking rubbish, let's not forget that Remain talk more nonsense because the level of desperation is higher and increasing. What the point of it is, who knows - given Remain are on track to win easily. Or are they
BlackLabel said:
When delivering leaflets a few weeks ago a fairly well represented view was that Cameron had "totally lost the plot".Edit: I see Boris/Gove are now challenging Dave to a face-to-face debate. Previously Boris had said that any blue-on-blue would not happen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/eu-refe...Edited by Esseesse on Tuesday 7th June 17:22
turbobloke said:
Joe and Jo Public might even be the worst people to decide, if only politicians didn't occupy that slot already.
Take a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.
I see what you're getting at but the Leave campaign has been just as bad, if not worse (obviously depending on your viewpoint as we're all biased to a greater or lesser degree). I mean they still have a lie on the side of their battle bus for crying out loud. But aside from that, before the whole campaign for either side kicked off, parliament was (and still is) overall pro-Remain. And the people we voted in to represent our views, like it or not, on average as MPs are going to have more understanding of the Remain/Leave ramifications than Joe/Jane Public. So while it would be, shall we say, sub optimal for MPs to make the Remain/Leave decision, it's still better than J. Public doing it. That Churchill democracy quote springs to mind, and twas ever thus.Take a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.
irocfan said:
Mario149 said:
Agreed. I can see why we're having a referendum, but in general there's a very good reason for not letting the public make decisions such as this as by and large the average person is not equipped with the knowledge to come to a sensible answer.
and you think that MP's are? Mhairi Black is better placed than you to decide what is best for the country? TBH chap your sentence above strikes me as being exactly what dictators tell themselves...Mario149 said:
turbobloke said:
Joe and Jo Public might even be the worst people to decide, if only politicians didn't occupy that slot already.
Take a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.
I see what you're getting at but the Leave campaign has been just as bad, if not worse (obviously depending on your viewpoint as we're all biased to a greater or lesser degree) /smipTake a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.
In terms of bias, I disagree if you mean that everyone is biased on every political issue. Bias is defined as some unfair prejudice, inclination or disinclination. Presumably the unfairness aspect reflects the lack of a logical basis and the presence of some irrationality. In which case, it's clear that there can be purely rational reasons for taking a position, and some people naturally apply themselves to that route for their decision-making.
turbobloke said:
Mario149 said:
turbobloke said:
Joe and Jo Public might even be the worst people to decide, if only politicians didn't occupy that slot already.
Take a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.
I see what you're getting at but the Leave campaign has been just as bad, if not worse (obviously depending on your viewpoint as we're all biased to a greater or lesser degree) /smipTake a look at what CMD has said throughout the Remain campaign, totally barking, and the disinformation in George's dodgy dossier.
turbobloke said:
powerstroke said:
Will there be a reason to vote tory in 2020 ???? or is a week a long time in politics.......
Corbyn, if he's still around and hopefully he will be.Esseesse said:
Not sure this is a good thing longer term. Helps legitimise a useless Tory party that deserves to fall apart.
It does feel a bit 'end of days' for both Labour and Tory.I can't see the PLP supporting the left wing candidate the members want and this referendum campaign must surely be way worse than any one in the tory party thought possible.
Having said that the Tory party will be much better at sweeping the divisions under the carpet and getting on with it than Labour ever will.
desolate said:
Esseesse said:
Not sure this is a good thing longer term. Helps legitimise a useless Tory party that deserves to fall apart.
It does feel a bit 'end of days' for both Labour and Tory.I can't see the PLP supporting the left wing candidate the members want and this referendum campaign must surely be way worse than any one in the tory party thought possible.
Having said that the Tory party will be much better at sweeping the divisions under the carpet and getting on with it than Labour ever will.
don4l said:
BlackLabel said:
Was that Cast Iron Dave's last PMQs? Probably not but it's remarkable that we are now in a position where Corbyn could actually out last Cameron. 
What a hole Dave, Gideon etc have dug for themselves.
That wasn't his last PMQs. What a hole Dave, Gideon etc have dug for themselves.There is one more to go.
BlackLabel said:
Was that Cast Iron Dave's last PMQs? Probably not but it's remarkable that we are now in a position where Corbyn could actually out last Cameron. What a hole Dave, Gideon etc have dug for themselves.
is it possible that Corby's played a blinder and, realising what a poisoned chalice and crock of s What a hole Dave, Gideon etc have dug for themselves.
t this referendum vote would turn out to be, positioned himself out of harm's way and hopes to reap the reward when smarmy Dave comes a cropper?mikees said:
I hate to say the as a life long Tory but JC is beginning to look like he's played a blinder (by accident) and if the Tories go on an internal war footing he's possibly electable
If...The way in which the toad CMD and grey man GOO morphed into weasels suggests they are capable of morphing back.
It would conclude a remarkable deception of the British people.
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