Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not! VOL 2

[Deptford Draylons]

citizensm1th said:

Oh i am not accusing you of xenophobia, i live just outside of leicester and i see on a daily basis the results of ghettos (indian,Pakistani, somalian, and working class white british, polish and other eastern european )

I was more commenting on the broad brush "all these immigrants never assimilate and adopt our ways type of posting"

patently tosh

Tosh indeed. Mainly because no one ever says 'all immigrants ' to any of these type of threads.

[Jockman]

Oakshott completely owned Shami.

Did anyone see the fight with all the hair pulling....or was that just in my head?

[Jockman]

Randy Winkman said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

Cobnapint said:

Stunning Labour Party mindsets. The guy is now a hero - for losing a GE.

didnt Gordon Brown lose his job with a similar number of MP's in 2010 yet Corbyn is a winner.

Corbyn did better than expected, May screwed up. Brexit was tough, now it's way tougher.

How so?

Do you mean May's version of brexit just got tougher?

[Deptford Draylons]

Shami is another like Barry Gardner - quick to anger all too easily.

[Jockman]

Deptford Draylons said:

Shami is another like Barry Gardner - quick to anger all too easily.

Oakshott knew which buttons to press.

When Barry loses it his face reddens and his voice rises. The soft saintly look quickly disappears.

[citizensm1th]

Deptford Draylons said:

citizensm1th said:

Oh i am not accusing you of xenophobia, i live just outside of leicester and i see on a daily basis the results of ghettos (indian,Pakistani, somalian, and working class white british, polish and other eastern european )

I was more commenting on the broad brush "all these immigrants never assimilate and adopt our ways type of posting"

patently tosh

Tosh indeed. Mainly because no one ever says 'all immigrants ' to any of these type of threads.

i may have been paraphrasing mr pendant but

"I think there's a lot of truth in this. Mass immigration is an issue - trickled in numbers allow integration. Vastly accelerated immigration with large groups do not assimilate, but rather stick to their own and that causes issues."

"The post Blair years, there's been no inclination to encourage integration to the "British" way of life . (for fear of being called racist of course) So you get groups of Bulgarians hanging around with Bulgarians. Latvians with Latvians. etc. They bring their customs to the UK."

these two quotes are broad brush and infer all immigrants dont integrate or assimilate.

Edited by citizensm1th on Friday 9th June 22:43

[jakesmith]

I must have missed Oakshott owning Shami what happened? I have no time for anti semitic Shami

[Jockman]

jakesmith said:

I must have missed Oakshott owning Shami what happened? I have no time for anti semitic Shami

From the outset she talked over her and basically hectored her into a corner.

Do you recall the phrase "...but he didn't Shami, so get over it"?

[Deptford Draylons]

citizensm1th said:

Deptford Draylons said:

citizensm1th said:

Oh i am not accusing you of xenophobia, i live just outside of leicester and i see on a daily basis the results of ghettos (indian,Pakistani, somalian, and working class white british, polish and other eastern european )

I was more commenting on the broad brush "all these immigrants never assimilate and adopt our ways type of posting"

patently tosh

Tosh indeed. Mainly because no one ever says 'all immigrants ' to any of these type of threads.

i may have been paraphrasing mr pendant but

"I think there's a lot of truth in this. Mass immigration is an issue - trickled in numbers allow integration. Vastly accelerated immigration with large groups do not assimilate, but rather stick to their own and that causes issues."

"The post Blair years, there's been no inclination to encourage integration to the "British" way of life . (for fear of being called racist of course) So you get groups of Bulgarians hanging around with Bulgarians. Latvians with Latvians. etc. They bring their customs to the UK."

these two quotes are broad brush and infer all immigrants dont integrate or assimilate.

Edited by citizensm1th on Friday 9th June 22:43

I finding it rather boring because every argument turns into the same thing when people turn up and ask why something it being aimed at ' all immigrants' and 'all Muslims' and so on forever and a day on PH.
I don't think its a slip , more deliberate to go off on one on a false debate. Both points you cite don't blanket say 'all immigrants don't assimilate' , more that they do, but the speed and sudden influx of people may lessen that process.

[jurbie]

NDA said:

Rich_W said:

Immigrants who came to the UK before Blair threw open the floodgates. Came and became part of British society. Indians, Pakistanis, Early Poles, Germans, Swiss, French, Aussies whoever. They integrated, they changed their way of life to the British way of life. Adopted our cultures to a degree. Sure, they probably observed certain things from their home land. But by and large "became" Brits.

The post Blair years, there's been no inclination to encourage integration to the "British" way of life . (for fear of being called racist of course) So you get groups of Bulgarians hanging around with Bulgarians. Latvians with Latvians. etc. They bring their customs to the UK.

I think there's a lot of truth in this. Mass immigration is an issue - trickled in numbers allow integration. Vastly accelerated immigration with large groups do not assimilate, but rather stick to their own and that causes issues.

When I lived in abroad in my youth I had to speak the language and adapt to my host country's way of life - had I been part of a larger group, I probably would have adapted more slowly or not at all.

The first generation to arrive never integrates that well be they Poles coming here or Brits on the Costa. Their children however do much better but will still keep hold of many if not all the traditions from the old country.

With every subsequent generation it gets more diluted and integration is not an issue. Integration takes time, it doesn't happen overnight.

From 1946 over 250,000 Poles arrived in the UK and with the post war housing shortage there was nowhere to house them so they ended up living in former army camps which effectively became little Polish enclaves within the UK, a surefire way if there ever was one of avoiding any type of integration. http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/no...

My grandparents spoke just enough English to get by, I'm 100% British but proud of my heritage and I have grown up nephews and nieces who consider being one quarter Polish to be an interesting novelty. I doubt it will even register with their kids.

[Rich_W]

citizensm1th said:

these two quotes are broad brush and infer all immigrants dont integrate or assimilate.

Since it's my quote.

At no point did I say the word "ALL"

So, I'll try and explain it to you


You're an imbecile. Who wants to shout down genuine concern about immigration by implying that I (or others who wish to discuss this subject) are lazy racists.

I won't bother to try and change your opinion. You aren't; worth the headache

HTH

[johnxjsc1985]

jurbie said:

The first generation to arrive never integrates that well be they Poles coming here or Brits on the Costa. Their children however do much better but will still keep hold of many if not all the traditions from the old country.

With every subsequent generation it gets more diluted and integration is not an issue. Integration takes time, it doesn't happen overnight.

From 1946 over 250,000 Poles arrived in the UK and with the post war housing shortage there was nowhere to house them so they ended up living in former army camps which effectively became little Polish enclaves within the UK, a surefire way if there ever was one of avoiding any type of integration. http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/no...

My grandparents spoke just enough English to get by, I'm 100% British but proud of my heritage and I have grown up nephews and nieces who consider being one quarter Polish to be an interesting novelty. I doubt it will even register with their kids.

its funny but I don't consider the Polish people foreigners. Anyone who fought so hard in WW2" deserve to consider this their home.

[Rich_W]

jurbie said:

The first generation to arrive never integrates that well be they Poles coming here or Brits on the Costa. Their children however do much better but will still keep hold of many if not all the traditions from the old country.

With every subsequent generation it gets more diluted and integration is not an issue. Integration takes time, it doesn't happen overnight.

From 1946 over 250,000 Poles arrived in the UK and with the post war housing shortage there was nowhere to house them so they ended up living in former army camps which effectively became little Polish enclaves within the UK, a surefire way if there ever was one of avoiding any type of integration. http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/no...

My grandparents spoke just enough English to get by, I'm 100% British but proud of my heritage and I have grown up nephews and nieces who consider being one quarter Polish to be an interesting novelty. I doubt it will even register with their kids.

Interesting point. Certainly tallies with an elderly Polish couple that used to live near my parents when I was little. They were pleasant but didn't really socialise, their kids were far more proactive.

But surely the correct way is to encourage integration as soon as they land? You cant wait 10 years for the next generation to come through.


Though I suspect that for many of the low skill / low IQ immigrants we receive (that generally do repetitive simple manual labouring roles) they simply lack the ability to learn English to a decent standard. Certainly met a guy a while back who wasn't the sharpest tool. And it was obvious he simply couldn't do it.

There are others who just have no intention of staying long term so view it as a waste of time to integrate. You'll note these types tend to drive cars on foreign plates. (as a sterotype)

Slight tangent. Chatting to a Bulgarian guy at work this week about the Election (he cant vote since he's not resident), he is pretty fluent. But apparently his English isn't good enough for citizenship. (which surprised) He's working on it. He hopes to get citizenship next year when he's been here 5 years, said there's a test of sorts to learn about British History. I told him we only care about 2 dates 1939-1945 and 1966 when we won the World cup

[NDA]

The original point being made, is the difference between mass immigration and immigration. A trickle where small numbers integrate is different to a switch being thrown and unrestricted immigration where large, self segregating groups appear.

It is easy to point to the individual charming Romanian couple who pop around for tea to listen to The Archers. I was trying to make a different argument to be honest.

[jurbie]

You're either ignoring the point I made earlier or you consider 250,000 Poles arriving in such short order that processing them required an act of parliament ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Resettlement_... ) to be a trickle in which case what's the problem? Like I said, it took a generation but we're all pretty much integrated now and the same will happen again.

[NDA]

jurbie said:

You're either ignoring the point I made earlier or you consider 250,000 Poles arriving in such short order that processing them required an act of parliament ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Resettlement_... ) to be a trickle in which case what's the problem? Like I said, it took a generation but we're all pretty much integrated now and the same will happen again.

I missed your post - apologies.

I suspect things were a little different in '47 - the Poles fought magnificently for this country in the war and I suspect were keen to assimilate and we were grateful to have them. 250,000 required an Act of Parliament - we take in a larger number every year now with no special acts. Is it sustainable to take in the same number (or larger) every single year?

[fido]

Jockman said:

From the outset she talked over her and basically hectored her into a corner.

Do you recall the phrase "...but he didn't Shami, so get over it"?

She also called Theresa a robot, and Shami's boss a Clown - made me chuckle - straight to the point!

[gadgetmac]

johnxjsc1985 said:

jurbie said:

The first generation to arrive never integrates that well be they Poles coming here or Brits on the Costa. Their children however do much better but will still keep hold of many if not all the traditions from the old country.

With every subsequent generation it gets more diluted and integration is not an issue. Integration takes time, it doesn't happen overnight.

From 1946 over 250,000 Poles arrived in the UK and with the post war housing shortage there was nowhere to house them so they ended up living in former army camps which effectively became little Polish enclaves within the UK, a surefire way if there ever was one of avoiding any type of integration. http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/no...

My grandparents spoke just enough English to get by, I'm 100% British but proud of my heritage and I have grown up nephews and nieces who consider being one quarter Polish to be an interesting novelty. I doubt it will even register with their kids.

its funny but I don't consider the Polish people foreigners. Anyone who fought so hard in WW2" deserve to consider this their home.

Thats fine. You do of course need to FULLY appreciate who that would encompass. WW2 was fought in parts of North Africa for instance. Like. i say, thats a fine and noble sentiment if you've explored all of the implications of your statement.

[BlackLabel]

[Halb]

Mixed bag