Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

John145 said:

p1stonhead said:

John145 said:

p1stonhead said:

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

Which means specifically?

• don't answer that its rhetorical as you (or any of us) don't know the answer.

I for one am excited to see what leaving actually means but I suspect it'll be 12-18 months away minimum.

Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 5th December 21:27

It means that we leave the EU.

Talk about you being a cliche leave voter!

You have no idea what leaving the EU means unless you are psychic.

Free movement? Single market?

Please enlighten us!

For me it's free trade, the end of FMOL, reduction of beaurocracy and more power to my vote.

I know it sounds like a crazy idea but free trade should be free. We shouldn't pay the EU for their version of free trade. If that means we aren't in the single market so be it. If that means tariffs, so be it. Free trade is free. It isn't paying beaurocrats a 9 figure sum per week.

Then we can also have a flexible government which can react to world events decisively.

All valid and fair points unlike 535i's.

My main point was just that no one knows if any of this will come to pass as predictably it looks like the government is running around like headless chickens. So being 'excited' for something you have no details of isn't logical.

The same point can be said of what would remain mean, what is remain's plan, where is the eu going?

Of course it can but it wasn't me who said I was excited about either one.

If TM came out and said ' we have crunched the numbers and leaving means £10,000 tax to everyone in the country' - please send us a cheque', I wonder if 535i would be 'excited'?

Obviously a ridiculous example but a valid point that no one knows what the hell they voted for. I'm cautious in the extreme as to what either of the bloody options actually means.

That those leading us through this clearly don't know (or we wouldn't be 6 months down the line and fighting about it in court) is laughable.

As you can see, the only person who has used the word excited is you.

What does ' I can't wait it's all good' in your below context mean then?

bmw535i said:

///ajd said:

If I'm wrong about all the above, I'll be happy!

So like you say, I'll be pretty disappointed soon enough.

Its a clusterfck, isn't it!

No, I can't wait. It's all good.

That I can't wait to leave the EU.

You're the one who said you were excited about what leaving means followed by saying "it wasn't me who said I was excited" a few posts later.

Comical but unsurprising.

You said you can't wait to leave. This is idiotic because you don't know what leaving means.

I said I was excited to see what leaving means. Huge difference which you clearly don't understand.

Moronic but unsurprising

[B'stard Child]

Great points scoring - fun for you both?

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

You said you can't wait to leave. This is idiotic because you don't know what leaving means.

I said I was excited to see what leaving means. Huge difference which you clearly don't understand.

Moronic but unsurprising

It means we will no longer be in the EU.

I know what you said - it's there for everyone to see. It's like you're offended by the fact I can't wait to leave. All a bit strange really.

[///ajd]

John145 said:

We need a strong leader with a clear vision. There isn't one.

The court case for article 50 should've been done and dusted with a - no need for parliament because it'll only delay the inevitable. We all know article 50 is getting triggered. Anyone delaying it, for whatever reason, will be viewed with contempt by many.

I just wish our government were bold and had a single voice and direction. Unfortunately there are too many vested interests in high places where some kind of single market and money going to the eu will benefit them directly.

Imagine the clarity in taking a position which was we will work with you not for you.

Also, can anyone name any political leaders they have failed so catastrophically and not been forced to resign? Junker and Tusk have their 2nd largest contributor decide to leave! Surely this must make your position untenable!

One thing that has been surprising is how much this means to some people. And by that I mean how much leaving means.

This has been built up to be such a "big thing", nominally by people such as Farage and others. They have made this massive case that it is so so vital to leave the EU - we must MUST do it. Or we'll all be doomed etc.

Really? Is it that important, or has it just been hyped to death?

I obviously think the country will be better off staying in, and clearly some think it will be better off out. But the evidence either way is hardly compelling is it? Whilst I think we'll be tangibly worse off, its clearly hard for me to prove, isn't it?

So why all the huge passion for out out out? What are people really expecting? Will there really be jubilation as we formally exit? What will it really mean? What will change in peoples day to day lives?

I've heard it said before that people need a cause - something to push for. It seems brexit has tapped that seam - and even though the goal is not that clear in its impact day to day it is a cause that has captured the imagination of millions.

I do wonder if there maybe huge sense of anti climax as we leave and nothing really changes - other than us all being worse off, watching the EU not really collapse or really take off, but just be the EU, looking after itself and being reasonably happy trying to make its project work despite differing economies and priorities.

The thing is - all this pitchforks in the street talk - do people really care that much? Why? What really is the big pay off for the everyday person?

[anonymous-user]

B'stard Child said:

Great points scoring - fun for you both?

Pretty boring really - but we all know they like to try and twist words and misquote people. Quite used to it now.

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

You said you can't wait to leave. This is idiotic because you don't know what leaving means.

I said I was excited to see what leaving means. Huge difference which you clearly don't understand.

Moronic but unsurprising

It means we will no longer be in the EU.

I know what you said - it's there for everyone to see. It's like you're offended by the fact I can't wait to leave. All a bit strange really.

You clearly have no idea what point I'm trying to make. You may as well be just as excited to remain. How can you be excited about something without details?! It's a slightly mental trait to have to be honest.

I personally can't wait until we leave the EU because everyone is getting a flying car (perhaps, maybe, maybe not).

[p1stonhead]

B'stard Child said:

Great points scoring - fun for you both?

Just trying to get a point across to someone who thinks like a toddler.

[johnxjsc1985]

I was led to believe that my Vote counted and I voted leave with the expectation that the Government would then get on with the process of leaving the EU. I didn't vote to leave just to be told I was too thick to understand the consequences and maybe more intelligent folk need to have a look to see if this was actually the right thing to do.
I have never been on strike or been on a protest march in my life but if this Referendum isn't honoured then I will be right alongside Hartley Brewer and I know a lot of people feel the same.

[ClaphamGT3]

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

Talk about you being a cliche head in the sand leave voter! Brexit means Brexit!

You have no idea what leaving the EU means unless you are psychic.

Free movement? Single market?

Please enlighten us!

The only thing we know is that we're leaving the EU. This has been covered many many many many many many many man man ma ma m m m mmmmm zzzzzzzzzzz

But we don't know that. Almost weekly, the case for enacting article 50 becomes less and less tenable. A Supreme Court ruling would be likely to further embolden an already reluctant House of Commons. A 16 word bill then becomes a massive roll of the dice as large numbers of MPs vote it down, not they will claim because they want to stop Article 50 - perish the thought - but because they want greater clarity on what the Govt means by 'leave'. Committed as they will then be to the legislative route, the Govt will either have to risk a vote of confidence or be at the mercy of parliament's demands for detail in the amended bill. The whole thing would then become a mess that would easily drag on until the 2020 election

[B'stard Child]

p1stonhead said:

B'stard Child said:

Great points scoring - fun for you both?

Just trying to get a point across to someone who thinks like a toddler.

Or someone who you think "thinks like a toddler" - perspective is fun like that

Now how well can you reason with a toddler - I've never had much success.

[///ajd]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I was led to believe that my Vote counted and I voted leave with the expectation that the Government would then get on with the process of leaving the EU. I didn't vote to leave just to be told I was too thick to understand the consequences and maybe more intelligent folk need to have a look to see if this was actually the right thing to do.
I have never been on strike or been on a protest march in my life but if this Referendum isn't honoured then I will be right alongside Hartley Brewer and I know a lot of people feel the same.

I fully understand and appreciate the strength of your feeling.

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

If there had not been a referendum at all, I'm not sure you'd be jumping up and down saying "I want a referendum to leave the EU".

There is a chance you would of course - kippers are passionate about it - but there are only around 4 million of them - for millions I suspect it would have been business as usual and meh.

[p1stonhead]

B'stard Child said:

p1stonhead said:

B'stard Child said:

Great points scoring - fun for you both?

Just trying to get a point across to someone who thinks like a toddler.

Or someone who you think "thinks like a toddler" - perspective is fun like that

Now how well can you reason with a toddler - I've never had much success.

Oh for sure, not easy to reason with one but in my experience the comparison is quite apt in regards to how my toddler nephews act

'We're going on a trip today!'

'Yay I can't wait'

'Wait, do you want to know where?'

'Trip! Trip! Trip!'

'We're going to Ikea'

........

[fido]

///ajd said:

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

You could turn the question around to yourself - why are you so pro-remaining in the EU?

Based on your supposed apathy around the situation surely you would support the UK leaving the EU quietly, negotiating a good deal on exit, with the added bonus of less animated flag-waving PH'ers. In reality, of course as you know, both sides want the complete opposite result - and that is why will be arguing over this for the next year or so.

[John145]

///ajd said:

One thing that has been surprising is how much this means to some people. And by that I mean how much leaving means.

This has been built up to be such a "big thing", nominally by people such as Farage and others. They have made this massive case that it is so so vital to leave the EU - we must MUST do it. Or we'll all be doomed etc.

Really? Is it that important, or has it just been hyped to death?

I obviously think the country will be better off staying in, and clearly some think it will be better off out. But the evidence either way is hardly compelling is it? Whilst I think we'll be tangibly worse off, its clearly hard for me to prove, isn't it?

So why all the huge passion for out out out? What are people really expecting? Will there really be jubilation as we formally exit? What will it really mean? What will change in peoples day to day lives?

I've heard it said before that people need a cause - something to push for. It seems brexit has tapped that seam - and even though the goal is not that clear in its impact day to day it is a cause that has captured the imagination of millions.

I do wonder if there maybe huge sense of anti climax as we leave and nothing really changes - other than us all being worse off, watching the EU not really collapse or really take off, but just be the EU, looking after itself and being reasonably happy trying to make its project work despite differing economies and priorities.

The thing is - all this pitchforks in the street talk - do people really care that much? Why? What really is the big pay off for the everyday person?

It's because you are benefitting.

Carney's speech today is part of the reason for leave.

Another is the attitude of eu leaders - why have tusk and juncker not resigned after brexit?

People see brexit as an opportunity for change. There is no doubt in my mind that to remain would be to add yet more labour to a drowning market. Only a leave vote offers a change to this. If it was up to me today we would have an emergency brake on immigration. When the nhs is in meltdown in their traditionally quiet periods surely this is a warning sign that something is wrong.

What makes me laugh is the idea that all immigration is a net benefit. If that were the case then we should be the fastest growing nation on earth as no other country in the world is accepting so much in terms of their size.

Your blindness to the negatives of the status quo is a damning reflection of your empathy skills.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

You clearly have no idea what point I'm trying to make. You may as well be just as excited to remain. How can you be excited about something without details?! It's a slightly mental trait to have to be honest.

I personally can't wait until we leave the EU because everyone is getting a flying car (perhaps, maybe, maybe not).

I haven't said I'm excited by it. I don't know why you keep saying excited - it's a bit manic. You seem quite deranged, just chill out. I don't get why you seem so bothered about what I think.

[johnxjsc1985]

///ajd said:

I fully understand and appreciate the strength of your feeling.

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

If there had not been a referendum at all, I'm not sure you'd be jumping up and down saying "I want a referendum to leave the EU".

There is a chance you would of course - kippers are passionate about it - but there are only around 4 million of them - for millions I suspect it would have been business as usual and meh.

I am not a Kipper I voted to leave I then expected the Gov to then start the difficult process of extracting us from the EU and I didn't think it would happen overnight. There was a Referendum and I believe that actually 400 of Parliamentary Constituencies voted to leave so whatever way you want to spin this the majority want to leave the EU what happens after that is the responsibility of Government that's what they get paid for. Seeing a bunch of crusty old farts getting a stiffy on over the meaning of words used in other events going back decades just adds to the feeling that we need a new Political class and that includes the Judiciary.

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

I was led to believe that my Vote counted and I voted leave with the expectation that the Government would then get on with the process of leaving the EU. I didn't vote to leave just to be told I was too thick to understand the consequences and maybe more intelligent folk need to have a look to see if this was actually the right thing to do.
I have never been on strike or been on a protest march in my life but if this Referendum isn't honoured then I will be right alongside Hartley Brewer and I know a lot of people feel the same.

I fully understand and appreciate the strength of your feeling.

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

If there had not been a referendum at all, I'm not sure you'd be jumping up and down saying "I want a referendum to leave the EU".

There is a chance you would of course - kippers are passionate about it - but there are only around 4 million of them - for millions I suspect it would have been business as usual and meh.

Do you know johnxjsc1985 is a UKIP supporter? You seem to be suggesting he is above.

Have you asked? Or has he said as much? Or are you twisting what has been written in his post?

johnxjsc1985 are you a UKIP supporter?

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

You clearly have no idea what point I'm trying to make. You may as well be just as excited to remain. How can you be excited about something without details?! It's a slightly mental trait to have to be honest.

I personally can't wait until we leave the EU because everyone is getting a flying car (perhaps, maybe, maybe not).

I haven't said I'm excited by it. I don't know why you keep saying excited - it's a bit manic. You seem quite deranged, just chill out. I don't get why you seem so bothered about what I think.

Because generally 'excited' and 'I can't wait' mean the same thing.

And I care because you voted out without seemingly any reason other than 'just get me out of whatever I don't care what actually happens!'

Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 5th December 22:56

[anonymous-user]

ClaphamGT3 said:

But we don't know that. Almost weekly, the case for enacting article 50 becomes less and less tenable. A Supreme Court ruling would be likely to further embolden an already reluctant House of Commons. A 16 word bill then becomes a massive roll of the dice as large numbers of MPs vote it down, not they will claim because they want to stop Article 50 - perish the thought - but because they want greater clarity on what the Govt means by 'leave'. Committed as they will then be to the legislative route, the Govt will either have to risk a vote of confidence or be at the mercy of parliament's demands for detail in the amended bill. The whole thing would then become a mess that would easily drag on until the 2020 election

It's only my opinion.

[don'tbesilly]

johnxjsc1985 said:

///ajd said:

I fully understand and appreciate the strength of your feeling.

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

If there had not been a referendum at all, I'm not sure you'd be jumping up and down saying "I want a referendum to leave the EU".

There is a chance you would of course - kippers are passionate about it - but there are only around 4 million of them - for millions I suspect it would have been business as usual and meh.

I am not a Kipper I voted to leave I then expected the Gov to then start the difficult process of extracting us from the EU and I didn't think it would happen overnight. There was a Referendum and I believe that actually 400 of Parliamentary Constituencies voted to leave so whatever way you want to spin this the majority want to leave the EU what happens after that is the responsibility of Government that's what they get paid for. Seeing a bunch of crusty old farts getting a stiffy on over the meaning of words used in other events going back decades just adds to the feeling that we need a new Political class and that includes the Judiciary.

Thought as much, ///ajd does the usual, twisting what someone states!