Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)

[johnxjsc1985]

The Conservatives are revolting or at least refusing to work for the EU elections. What is the point in voting for someone who could be in the Job for a matter of weeks or just a few months,. Yet another example of just how absurd Politics in this Country has become.

[Thorodin]

It's just a bit more than absurd. £100 million to do it? If the politicians had to pay for it themselves, would it happen?

[edh]

JagLover said:

Brooking10 said:

Point missed.

It’s the defectors to Nige that this week have eroded the Tory position in the polls.

But let’s hope to your point that come election time people see sense and vote for proper political parties if they bother to vote at all.

proper political parties are those who keep their manifesto commitments.

The Tories ditched most of theirs, some before the election. Yet their brexit commitments are sacrosanct?

I don't think any of the losing parties have any obligation to hold firm several years later - how would policy positions ever evolve?

[768]

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/magnitsky/status/1118060430713...

[amusingduck]

edh said:

The Tories ditched most of theirs, some before the election. Yet their brexit commitments are sacrosanct?

Yep. That's what happens when you send a leaflet to every household which states:

HMG said:

On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU). It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come

HMG said:

This is your chance to decide your own future and the future of the United Kingdom. It is important that you vote

Emphasis not mine.

HMG said:

A once in a generation decision
The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.

Emphasis not mine.

HMG said:

The EU referendum is a once in a generation decision. The Government believes it is in you and your family’s best interests that the UK remains in the European Union.

Vote on Thursday, 23rd June 2016.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf

[wc98]

768 said:

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/magnitsky/status/1118060430713...

i hope andrew neil gets the chance to interview him again in light of this.somehow i doubt it.

[BlackLabel]

wc98 said:

given where many of the ukip votes came from in the last election but one, i am surprised people are worried about the tories losing more votes to the brexit party than labour. i think they will both lose significant numbers to the brexit party. who knows, maybe enough for a tory/labour coalition to be formed, that would put the cat among the pigeons (and finally kill both stone dead,imo).

45% of UKIP’s 2015 voters went over to the Tories in 2017 and just 11% went to Labour. The rest stayed with UKIP or just didn’t vote.

The 2017 Conservative vote was composed of 71% Leave voters and 29% Remain (in 2015 that was 61%/39%). The 2017 Labour split was identical but the other way round.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...

Sure both Labour and the Tories will lose some votes to UKIP and the new Brexit party but I think it’s highly likely that the Tories will lose significantly more.

[edh]

amusingduck said:

edh said:

The Tories ditched most of theirs, some before the election. Yet their brexit commitments are sacrosanct?

Yep. That's what happens when you send a leaflet to every household which states:

HMG said:

On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU). It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come

HMG said:

This is your chance to decide your own future and the future of the United Kingdom. It is important that you vote

Emphasis not mine.

HMG said:

A once in a generation decision
The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.

Emphasis not mine.

HMG said:

The EU referendum is a once in a generation decision. The Government believes it is in you and your family’s best interests that the UK remains in the European Union.

Vote on Thursday, 23rd June 2016.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf

You seem to have missed the point by quoting pre-referendum government stuff and omitting to mention any 2017 Tory manifesto commitments to a specific form of brexit.

[amusingduck]

edh said:

You seem to have missed the point by quoting pre-referendum government stuff and omitting to mention any 2017 Tory manifesto commitments to a specific form of brexit.

The 2017 Tory manifesto that only exists because of the referendum which was explicitly, repeatedly, promised to be implemented no matter the result?

[Hereward]

wc98 said:

768 said:

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/magnitsky/status/1118060430713...

i hope andrew neil gets the chance to interview him again in light of this.somehow i doubt it.

BBC have picked it up:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47952275

I've mentioned it before but I am constantly totally bewildered about the Left's incessant obsession with Israel. We live hundreds of miles away in the UK, with a multitude of what must surely be more pressing concerns, yet time and time again Israel and Palestine and Zionism comes up as some sort of total obsession with UK socialists.

edh et al; any insight on what it's all about?

[bitchstewie]

Hereward said:

BBC have picked it up:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47952275

I've mentioned it before but I am constantly totally bewildered about the Left's incessant obsession with Israel. We live hundreds of miles away in the UK, with a multitude of what must surely be more pressing concerns, yet time and time again Israel and Palestine and Zionism comes up as some sort of total obsession with UK socialists.

edh et al; any insight on what it's all about?

How the hell can you be shadow justice secretary and get caught so obviously lying, which doesn't tend to go hand in hand with truth and justice?

It'll be interesting to see what Corbyn does given the stick he's getting about anti-semitism.

[motco]

How thick can you be to give a categorical denial on national TV while knowing that you did, in fact make these statements and that the meeting at which you made them was video recorded. If the camera had been any closer to him it would been right up his bloody nose! It wasn't as if it was a hidden camera in a tie pin or anything.

[iwantagta]

motco said:

How thick can you be to give a categorical denial on national TV while knowing that you did, in fact make these statements and that the meeting at which you made them was video recorded. If the camera had been any closer to him it would been right up his bloody nose! It wasn't as if it was a hidden camera in a tie pin or anything.

& he had a smug little grin on his face, he knew full well he said it.
I mean, what has it come to when a politician can't even lie well? Thats the basis for their profession, he should be kicked out for that alone.

[edh]

Hereward said:

wc98 said:

768 said:

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/magnitsky/status/1118060430713...

i hope andrew neil gets the chance to interview him again in light of this.somehow i doubt it.

BBC have picked it up:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47952275

I've mentioned it before but I am constantly totally bewildered about the Left's incessant obsession with Israel. We live hundreds of miles away in the UK, with a multitude of what must surely be more pressing concerns, yet time and time again Israel and Palestine and Zionism comes up as some sort of total obsession with UK socialists.

edh et al; any insight on what it's all about?

Not really, sorry.

The best I can come up with is that the left supports any number of oppressed / marginalised causes, and that where there is a strong and organised pushback from the other side, it escalates. That probably leads it to become more of a badge of honour and amplifies that support. In turn we get to learn more about the situation, and quite frankly, like many people, I find the Israeli govt's treatment of Palestinians is horrific. Maybe we see Israel as an enlightened "western" democracy, and expect more from them than we would from the variety of despotic/theocratic regimes in Asia, Africa and the Middle East?

There is support for causes across the globe, but maybe less publicity - as an example I'd like to see more public statements and opposition to the treatment of the Uighurs - That seems a pretty disastrous situation. A quick google suggests Corbyn raised this in 2015 during the Chinese state visit, but haven't seen much officially since.

[SpeckledJim]

The Jewish community has the historical reputation (rightly and wrongly) for being rich and entrepreneurial, especially with regard to banking.

[urquattroGus]

Thank God for Andrew Neil; although it looks like we are going to see less and less of him??

Apart from his "ill advised" photo in Private Eye perhaps??

[Thorodin]

SpeckledJim said:

The Jewish community has the historical reputation (rightly and wrongly) for being rich and entrepreneurial, especially with regard to banking.

You are right. It's about anti-capitalism. Their mindset is that all the banking and associated finance all over the world is controlled by Jewish organisations. So: 'my enemies are those that are against them no matter who they are'. Every bit as irrational as they appear and totally lacking in the guile to hide it. There must be many of their members who know this but swallow it in their traditional or student-led philosophy.

[ape x]

Thorodin said:

You are right. It's about anti-capitalism. Their mindset is that all the banking and associated finance all over the world is controlled by Jewish organisations. So: 'my enemies are those that are against them no matter who they are'. Every bit as irrational as they appear and totally lacking in the guile to hide it. There must be many of their members who know this but swallow it in their traditional or student-led philosophy.

Well not really true. Being anti Zionist is to take a stand against the Israeli government and its actions. Many Jewish people are anti Zionist.
If I disagreed with Tony Blair and his actions does that mean I hate the Brits?

It's a hell of a lot more complex and painful to deal with but Zionism is not Judaism...

[ape x]

[Thorodin]

ape x said:

Well not really true. Being anti Zionist is to take a stand against the Israeli government and its actions. Many Jewish people are anti Zionist.
If I disagreed with Tony Blair and his actions does that mean I hate the Brits?

It's a hell of a lot more complex and painful to deal with but Zionism is not Judaism...

No of course not. The point about Blair is that he was not as the current crop of Labour hopefuls. The difference between Judaism and Zionism is religion/political so a deflection the Left use to their perceived advantage.

I know that, you know that and they know that. It's too easy and very convenient to use it as a shield to hide their antisemitism.