To BONG or not to BONG, that is the question
Discussion
Brooking10 said:
Dont like rolls said:
It is the EU "political structure" that is close to the Soviet style. Concentrate power at the top, diminish national government to increasingly minor choices etc etc.
What meaningful examples would you give ?Any with specific reference to how they have curtailed your own freedoms, beliefs or opportunity ?
See the above#
It was a primary reason (the only one maybe ?) for me to vote the way I did, but hey....we ARE leaving soon so happy days ahead with the British responsible to ourselves.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Cranked is having a knees up. You could gate crash. Two mins of fireworks followed by a mug of coco.
10.59 pm sharp.
Clock projection onto Downing Street and a speech by Boris.10.59 pm sharp.
An honest and brave thing to do, he is publicly taking responsibility (and the governments) for the job ahead.
Well done Boris.
Brooking10 said:
Ok so no examples then just a repetition of the same rhetoric.
Still as you say we are off on our merry way now.
It’s going to be interesting for the next few years.
No examples ? they are endless.Still as you say we are off on our merry way now.
It’s going to be interesting for the next few years.
So, just for you............... every action/treaty on EU structure from Maastricht (really from day one) on has delivered more and more integration.
You must be blind if you think my comments are "rhetoric" as more integration is a primary aim for the future.
Drip snip Drip snip Drip snip Drip snip
Edited by Dont like rolls on Monday 20th January 16:08
Brooking10 said:
I’m going disguised as Don’t Look Rolls - you’ll recognise me as I’ll change outfits and ask you to call me by a different name on several occasions throughout the evening”s festivities - but only because I want a look at Crankie’s very nice Fiat Coupe 
Will you get in if you call everybody there a 
?
Dont like rolls said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I suggest you go away and do as much reading as you can about WW2, and while you are at it, perhaps you might explain how the US was going launch a D-Day from the Eastern seaboard of the United States. Perhaps you too have the memory of a goldfish?
That is what TORCH was about, "Just in case" and relatively easy extraction if it went Tits up(With the added benefit of splitting the German defences in the West if OVERLORD worked out Ok or Dragging reserves away to allow it to work)
Edited by Dont like rolls on Monday 20th January 19:42
DeepEnd said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DeepEnd said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I suggest you go away and do as much reading as you can about WW2, and while you are at it, perhaps you might explain how the US was going launch a D-Day from the Eastern seaboard of the United States. Perhaps you too have the memory of a goldfish?
You might want to read up on Operation Baytown, Avalanche and Dragoon.https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Atlas_of_the_World_...
As said, what if's are pointless.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Lets go for facts then shall we? which country out of France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland etc etc did not get taken over by the Nazi`s in WW2?
I was not arguing with you. I would think from my other recent comments I might know the answer to your question......Pan Pan Pan said:
Then it is really is not a `what if' situation.
The various operations that some have mentioned, not least D-Day itself, The Africa campaign, and not forgetting the war materiel being supplied to Russia, were only made possible because the UK, was the one key country that was `not' over run by the Nazis.
More by good fortune than our good planning. (When it was first threatened) The various operations that some have mentioned, not least D-Day itself, The Africa campaign, and not forgetting the war materiel being supplied to Russia, were only made possible because the UK, was the one key country that was `not' over run by the Nazis.
After that is a totally different topic.
Pan Pan Pan said:
No that is not what I am saying, but if you are disputing the fact, that if the UK had not been the `one. country to prevent the Nazis from overtaking them, the outcome of WW2 is quite likely to have been very different, it seems to be very odd.
What possible difference does the fact that it was 75 years ago make to the situation?
If the allies had not prevailed in WW2, it is quite likely that the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party, that, or we would either be slaves to the Nazis or more likely disposed of by them. So the freedom that Europe currently enjoys is a direct result of the UK not succumbing to Nazi Germany in WW2.
The pure fact is correct. History.What possible difference does the fact that it was 75 years ago make to the situation?
If the allies had not prevailed in WW2, it is quite likely that the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party, that, or we would either be slaves to the Nazis or more likely disposed of by them. So the freedom that Europe currently enjoys is a direct result of the UK not succumbing to Nazi Germany in WW2.
Your conjecture is only that (I would say a tad emotional) As slaves or liquidated ? not really.
Hitler and the Germans had a very very different view of the British and its (1st world) Dominions vrs their view of the rest of the European nations which they regarded as mainly corrupt socially, politically and morally.
It would be unlikely those conditions would prevail in the Uk unless a deep seated resistance was mounted, this could not get supplies.
This ignores any effects on the large Jewish community in the UK which sadly, like other places most would suffer with most turning their back so not to see.
If anything, I think many European politicians do not understand that a generations deep sacrifice with hundred of thousand resting on their soil has a fundamental effect on a Nation that itself has always been free but still sent its young to die.
The British have since 1945 maintained a force of its finest on those European lands and maintained its wiliness to again send its young for Western European freedom.
I have no truck with those who say 1945 was years ago so forget it/shut-up, it is just the threat changed and moved a few counties further east.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Monday 20th January 21:23
Pan Pan Pan said:
OK, I will ask the question again. With the technology that was available at the time, how was the US going to be able to launch a successful D-Day from the other side of the Atlantic?
Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
Do you believe the Germans could have maintained their grip on the Uk for long had they invaded and then engaged on other fronts more demanding of their manpower ?Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
What if's are a bugger aren't they.
citizensm1th said:
some on here would have us believe the EU is the third reich/ussr which kind of makes all the effort of ww2 a bit silly really.
almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
Some always push to the extreme example to gain traction (in their heads).almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
The accusations is from me (not worth much other than my single vote) is that the structure of a centralised Eu system is developing towards (has already) Federation with a pyramid type structure. So yes much like that of the Soviet union. Add to that the more active "Socialist" political parties active and in power thought many countries within the Eu and the stench becomes to many, if it smells like a pig now, it will be a pig later.
catweasle said:
Dont like rolls said:
We do, we know you know and you really should know that we know and that you know
ah yeh but we don't know what we don't know do we?Do you have a spare main brain fuse I can borrow ? One of mine has got a dry joint.
Dont like rolls said:
citizensm1th said:
some on here would have us believe the EU is the third reich/ussr which kind of makes all the effort of ww2 a bit silly really.
almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
Some always push to the extreme example to gain traction (in their heads).almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
The accusations is from me (not worth much other than my single vote) is that the structure of a centralised Eu system is developing towards (has already) Federation with a pyramid type structure. So yes much like that of the Soviet union. Add to that the more active "Socialist" political parties active and in power in many countries within the Eu and the stench becomes to much for many, if it smells like a pig now, it will be a pig later.
Pan Pan Pan said:
The problem is that you don't seem to appreciate the pivotal nature of the UK in the last war. You don't seem to realize that if it had not been for the UK The EU would not even exist now. You don't seem to realize that what happened years ago has a direct effect on what can, and does happen now. Just because something happened 70 odd years ago does not mean it is no longer relevant today.
.
Listen, I f.
kING do...hint: Read my POSTS above.
I understand more than you do and I understand that protective commitment is still maintained ffs.
NATO is basically the ALLIES with the liberated continental countries sprinkled about a bit (if any of their equipment worked, other than the French)
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