Grads more likely to become cleaners
Discussion
vit4 said:
Speaking as an 18-year-old whose mates are all going to uni, but I've decided to push as far as I can without a degree first;
From what I'm seeing the problem is this. So many people are going to university that it doesn't mean s
t. There are some seriously thick people I know going to university, either studying a non-degree at a reasonable uni, or a reasonable degree at a st uni. Either way, in my group of 20-25 mates, only 4 or 5 of us aren't going to uni. If everybody is doing it, what is differentiating the people who are actually intelligent from those who are just going because it has been ingrained since the age of 11 that we MUST go to uni? Bit of a farce in many ways, we weren't offered any careers guidance that wasn't uni-focused. Everything was about going from GCSE to A Levels at the same school's sixth form and then progressing to university. This was all at a Dagenham comprehensive too, not even a 'decent' school. 
There is no focus on other ways of entering employment 
I left the sixth form to join a college, with the promise that the situation would be different. bks it was. All they care about is the statistic of how many people progress to do a degree. Seriously sad situation where people are going to uni because they are convinced that they cannot do well without a degree, and to a certain extent it is a self-fulfilling prophecy; so many people have them that it becomes the bare minimum standard required. I'm just hoping that my work ethic, experience, and qualifications earned on the job will pay in my favour but deep down I know that it will not be long before I hit a ceiling and need to do a degree myself.
Overall result seems to be that everybody, either actually intelligent or not, has the same piece of paper, applying for a relatively small pool of jobs.
Go for it but never have the fear of not going later. Whether it is a year or two, five or ten, don't close the door on it as the time at the right uni will open new doors and change lives. From what I'm seeing the problem is this. So many people are going to university that it doesn't mean s
t. There are some seriously thick people I know going to university, either studying a non-degree at a reasonable uni, or a reasonable degree at a st uni. Either way, in my group of 20-25 mates, only 4 or 5 of us aren't going to uni. If everybody is doing it, what is differentiating the people who are actually intelligent from those who are just going because it has been ingrained since the age of 11 that we MUST go to uni? Bit of a farce in many ways, we weren't offered any careers guidance that wasn't uni-focused. Everything was about going from GCSE to A Levels at the same school's sixth form and then progressing to university. This was all at a Dagenham comprehensive too, not even a 'decent' school. There is no focus on other ways of entering employment I left the sixth form to join a college, with the promise that the situation would be different. bks it was. All they care about is the statistic of how many people progress to do a degree. Seriously sad situation where people are going to uni because they are convinced that they cannot do well without a degree, and to a certain extent it is a self-fulfilling prophecy; so many people have them that it becomes the bare minimum standard required. I'm just hoping that my work ethic, experience, and qualifications earned on the job will pay in my favour but deep down I know that it will not be long before I hit a ceiling and need to do a degree myself. Overall result seems to be that everybody, either actually intelligent or not, has the same piece of paper, applying for a relatively small pool of jobs.
It sounds awful but Uni is about life, life skills and meeting a totally different group of people that hugely broaden your horizons and change the way you look at life.
There is no point in going if you are not convinced about it and also there is no point in someone going to their local uni or a uni which isn't diverse.
Go out, get a job. Work for a year but always, always keep your eyes open and regularly think about whether you should go to Uni. you will when working find yourself amongst people who will tell you that you have done the right thing etc but they are obviously wrong as they have no idea who you are, they are the people we all meet in life who want to keep everyone down with them and their failed lives.
Next year, I suspect, will transpire to be a great year to go to Uni. The shock of fees will pit a lot of people off and those who do go will be more focussed etc.
Regardless what you decide, good luck.
Can i just say regarding Engineering (in this case, Civil Engineering - you know the thing you need to actually have a functioning country). A graduate with a Masters degree (so 4 years at Uni with all the lovely debt that entails) can look to earn £19k in London. If they are lucky, they will be on ~ £30k after about 8/9 years, assuming they haven't been fired due to outsourcing/cuts etc.
So why the hell would you do it, rather than do something else with your degree which will 1) pay you more 2) be a safer career employment wise.
If i moved to Australia to do the same job as i do here, my pay would double overnight AT LEAST. I am beginning to wonder why I don't follow most of those who I graduated with and went in the business who mostly work overseas; certainly the other half is nagging me to do so.
The fact is that this country does not value us, and despite all the bleats of 'we should pay them more' most of our funds, due to the nature of the work we do (i.e largely infrastructure) come from Government. And people don't want to pay the higher taxes which would mean being able to pay us a decent salary.
So why the hell would you do it, rather than do something else with your degree which will 1) pay you more 2) be a safer career employment wise.
If i moved to Australia to do the same job as i do here, my pay would double overnight AT LEAST. I am beginning to wonder why I don't follow most of those who I graduated with and went in the business who mostly work overseas; certainly the other half is nagging me to do so.
The fact is that this country does not value us, and despite all the bleats of 'we should pay them more' most of our funds, due to the nature of the work we do (i.e largely infrastructure) come from Government. And people don't want to pay the higher taxes which would mean being able to pay us a decent salary.
Vonuber, my degree was in civ Eng. The pay 20 years ago was appalling - even for top grads in top firms. So I did an MBA and nearly tripled my earnings in 12 months.
fortunately civ Eng is a very good base for business management ( analytical , problem solving and project and people mngr skills)
I now work as a Group CFO overseas (glad I left engineering )
fortunately civ Eng is a very good base for business management ( analytical , problem solving and project and people mngr skills)
I now work as a Group CFO overseas (glad I left engineering )
alfaman said:
I don't really see what has changed in the last 30 years since I was at Uni.
The number of jobs available for bright graduates with useful degrees from good unis is probably same or better than 30 years ago - and the number of those students as a % of the population is still pretty similar (<5%?).
get a good degree from a good school in a good subject and u will get a good job. ( eg medicine law engineering or maths from Oxbridge, london or other top schools )
study the history of basket weaving at Luton Poly ( sorry...... University of Bedfordshire) and u won't .
Dont forget the minor in Jamaican studies to complement that fancy basket weaving degree.The number of jobs available for bright graduates with useful degrees from good unis is probably same or better than 30 years ago - and the number of those students as a % of the population is still pretty similar (<5%?).
get a good degree from a good school in a good subject and u will get a good job. ( eg medicine law engineering or maths from Oxbridge, london or other top schools )
study the history of basket weaving at Luton Poly ( sorry...... University of Bedfordshire) and u won't .
alfaman said:
Vonuber, my degree was in civ Eng. The pay 20 years ago was appalling - even for top grads in top firms. So I did an MBA and nearly tripled my earnings in 12 months.
fortunately civ Eng is a very good base for business management ( analytical , problem solving and project and people mngr skills)
I now work as a Group CFO overseas (glad I left engineering )
Exactly this.fortunately civ Eng is a very good base for business management ( analytical , problem solving and project and people mngr skills)
I now work as a Group CFO overseas (glad I left engineering )
I am one of the stupid people to do it in this country
vonuber said:
Can i just say regarding Engineering (in this case, Civil Engineering - you know the thing you need to actually have a functioning country). A graduate with a Masters degree (so 4 years at Uni with all the lovely debt that entails) can look to earn £19k in London. If they are lucky, they will be on ~ £30k after about 8/9 years, assuming they haven't been fired due to outsourcing/cuts etc.
So why the hell would you do it, rather than do something else with your degree which will 1) pay you more 2) be a safer career employment wise.
If i moved to Australia to do the same job as i do here, my pay would double overnight AT LEAST. I am beginning to wonder why I don't follow most of those who I graduated with and went in the business who mostly work overseas; certainly the other half is nagging me to do so.
The fact is that this country does not value us, and despite all the bleats of 'we should pay them more' most of our funds, due to the nature of the work we do (i.e largely infrastructure) come from Government. And people don't want to pay the higher taxes which would mean being able to pay us a decent salary.
Im a mechanical engineering graduate, MEng + various indsustry placements and now doing a PhD. Once thats done, I'll probably do a decent paying job for a year or 2 then bugger off to Australia or somewhere else that pays engineers more. Simple really, go where the money is because its not going to come to you.So why the hell would you do it, rather than do something else with your degree which will 1) pay you more 2) be a safer career employment wise.
If i moved to Australia to do the same job as i do here, my pay would double overnight AT LEAST. I am beginning to wonder why I don't follow most of those who I graduated with and went in the business who mostly work overseas; certainly the other half is nagging me to do so.
The fact is that this country does not value us, and despite all the bleats of 'we should pay them more' most of our funds, due to the nature of the work we do (i.e largely infrastructure) come from Government. And people don't want to pay the higher taxes which would mean being able to pay us a decent salary.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Im a mechanical engineering graduate, MEng + various indsustry placements and now doing a PhD. Once thats done, I'll probably do a decent paying job for a year or 2 then bugger off to Australia or somewhere else that pays engineers more. Simple really, go where the money is because its not going to come to you.
plenty of money to be made in oil and gas yet. All over the world.vonuber said:
Exactly this.
I am one of the stupid people to do it in this country
Not stupid : just use it as a platform to move into something else while u are still young enough - or work overseas as a engineer- or move into commercial work in engineering - then commercial work outside I am one of the stupid people to do it in this country
alfaman said:
get a good degree from a good school in a good subject and u will get a good job. ( eg medicine law engineering or maths from Oxbridge, london or other top schools )
This is something that makes me cross. I went to the University of Hertfordshire, which ok used to be a poly. However I did Automotive Engineering there, and their engineering dept was one of the best I saw from all the open days I went to. Why was engineering such a good subject there - the site was still owned by the Dehavilland family.However post university, I still get uni snobs banging on about how I didn't go to a proper university. Grrrr! Sadly people like this seem to work in HR depts across the country.
I am not suggesting that some of the ex polys dont do good degrees - however from a career / recruitment perspective it IS important that any institution is recognized for their good degree by industry.
If herts are good at engineering : surely that's recognized by the engineers in whatever firm u want to work for ?? ( who ultimately decide who to recruit)
..it is always worth attending the best / highest ranking Uni you can: even if the recruiting policy may seem blinkered ( te consultancy I joined as an Eng grad would only ever recruit from Oxbridge london Bristol and (maybe) 1 or 2 others if they were short of grads.
Not saying that si right - but it's a competitive world ...
If herts are good at engineering : surely that's recognized by the engineers in whatever firm u want to work for ?? ( who ultimately decide who to recruit)
..it is always worth attending the best / highest ranking Uni you can: even if the recruiting policy may seem blinkered ( te consultancy I joined as an Eng grad would only ever recruit from Oxbridge london Bristol and (maybe) 1 or 2 others if they were short of grads.
Not saying that si right - but it's a competitive world ...
Far too many kids these days still have the idea that having a degree is a license to print money. Especially those that think they are beating the 'system' by doing some sort of easy liberal arts degree...because, in their mind, 'it's still a degree'.
Not enough people doing engineering, mathematics or the sciences.
Not enough people doing engineering, mathematics or the sciences.
alfaman said:
I am not suggesting that some of the ex polys dont do good degrees - however from a career / recruitment perspective it IS important that any institution is recognized for their good degree by industry.
If herts are good at engineering : surely that's recognized by the engineers in whatever firm u want to work for ?? ( who ultimately decide who to recruit)
..it is always worth attending the best / highest ranking Uni you can: even if the recruiting policy may seem blinkered ( te consultancy I joined as an Eng grad would only ever recruit from Oxbridge london Bristol and (maybe) 1 or 2 others if they were short of grads.
Not saying that si right - but it's a competitive world ...
You have some valid points there, but I only came across this Red brick university syndrome after finishing University. Prior to going, nobody had mentioned it and I ignorantly didn't know that was the way the world worked.If herts are good at engineering : surely that's recognized by the engineers in whatever firm u want to work for ?? ( who ultimately decide who to recruit)
..it is always worth attending the best / highest ranking Uni you can: even if the recruiting policy may seem blinkered ( te consultancy I joined as an Eng grad would only ever recruit from Oxbridge london Bristol and (maybe) 1 or 2 others if they were short of grads.
Not saying that si right - but it's a competitive world ...
As they say, you live and learn.
In my experience the engineers only ever interviewed at one company, the rest of the graduate recruitment schemes were run by HR teams.
Weird. I've only ever been interviewed by the engineers I'd be working with (for both normal roles and grad training roles).
And yeah, you don't really hear about the whole Uni snobbery before you go. Luckily I did my PGDip at Glasgow, one of the oldest and best, so I got that base covered.
And yeah, you don't really hear about the whole Uni snobbery before you go. Luckily I did my PGDip at Glasgow, one of the oldest and best, so I got that base covered.
Why do engineers always seem to whinge that they don't get paid enough for their brilliance?
Engineers clearly aren't in it for the money otherwise you would never study it at Uni in the first place. Unless, people sign up for the career without ever checking on some very elementary basics such us how much will I get paid.
Or is it just that there is plenty of money in engineering but all the engineers on PH are crap?
Engineers clearly aren't in it for the money otherwise you would never study it at Uni in the first place. Unless, people sign up for the career without ever checking on some very elementary basics such us how much will I get paid.
Or is it just that there is plenty of money in engineering but all the engineers on PH are crap?
GroundEffect said:
Weird. I've only ever been interviewed by
And yeah, you don't really hear about the whole Uni snobbery before you go. Luckily I did my PGDip at Glasgow, one of the oldest and best, so I got that base covered.
I was under the impression that strathclyde have a stronger engineering dept. Certainly for undergrad degrees.And yeah, you don't really hear about the whole Uni snobbery before you go. Luckily I did my PGDip at Glasgow, one of the oldest and best, so I got that base covered.
DonkeyApple said:
Why do engineers always seem to whinge that they don't get paid enough for their brilliance?
Engineers clearly aren't in it for the money otherwise you would never study it at Uni in the first place. Unless, people sign up for the career without ever checking on some very elementary basics such us how much will I get paid.
Or is it just that there is plenty of money in engineering but all the engineers on PH are crap?
I (will be in 2 weeks) get paid plenty, thanks Engineers clearly aren't in it for the money otherwise you would never study it at Uni in the first place. Unless, people sign up for the career without ever checking on some very elementary basics such us how much will I get paid.
Or is it just that there is plenty of money in engineering but all the engineers on PH are crap?
Strachan said:
I was under the impression that strathclyde have a stronger engineering dept. Certainly for undergrad degrees.
Strathclyde is very good but the facilities at Glasgow (certainly Aero department) are better. And the research is stronger at Glasgow too.DonkeyApple said:
Why do engineers always seem to whinge that they don't get paid enough for their brilliance?
Engineers clearly aren't in it for the money otherwise you would never study it at Uni in the first place. Unless, people sign up for the career without ever checking on some very elementary basics such us how much will I get paid.
Or is it just that there is plenty of money in engineering but all the engineers on PH are crap?
And yet engineering companies are always whining in the press they can't get the staff. Engineers clearly aren't in it for the money otherwise you would never study it at Uni in the first place. Unless, people sign up for the career without ever checking on some very elementary basics such us how much will I get paid.
Or is it just that there is plenty of money in engineering but all the engineers on PH are crap?
Strange how organisations that pay a decent rate don't have trouble with recruitment.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff