Poor cut off from water
Discussion
Victorian England fitted sewers for everyone because it wasn't an individual problem. Rising population density was causing epidemics to spread rapidly without proper sanitation. This spread to rich areas even if the richer areas had sanitation.
The costs in terms of lives, both rich and poor, money, damage to businesses by staff sickness and so on outweighed the costs of providing proper sanitation
It seems in this case the money has been defrauded and should be recovered from the perpetrators.
Market forces will reduce demand as more people cannot afford the charges. The debts will still need servicing meaning market price cannot fall. With the debts shared between fewer the costs can only rise driving more customers away.
The business is bankrupt since it cannot generate sufficient revenue to service its debts.
Trying to keep it going is liable to cause far greater costs if it leads to epidemics.
The costs in terms of lives, both rich and poor, money, damage to businesses by staff sickness and so on outweighed the costs of providing proper sanitation
It seems in this case the money has been defrauded and should be recovered from the perpetrators.
Market forces will reduce demand as more people cannot afford the charges. The debts will still need servicing meaning market price cannot fall. With the debts shared between fewer the costs can only rise driving more customers away.
The business is bankrupt since it cannot generate sufficient revenue to service its debts.
Trying to keep it going is liable to cause far greater costs if it leads to epidemics.
unrepentant said:
$150 a month for sewerage is scandalous. Everything is in the hands of private companies though and the market economy sometimes sucks. The system in Britain where you can buy utilities from whoever you want is much better, a much more genuine open market. Here you buy utilities from private companies but they are often monopolies. I have a choice of one gas supplier and one electricity supplier. We pay $45 a month for sewerage which is not unreasonable but every home in town pays the same. So we (2 adults) pay the same as a family of 6 as does a little old lady on her own. Lazy monopolies rarely provide good value or service whether they be private or public.
We can only get water and sewerage from one supplier in each area and my charge (based on the old rateable value of the house) was £80/mth. It varies quite a lot by area here and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it short of moving, or going on a meter and hoping you'll use less water than was allowed for in the fixed charge.
Mobile Chicane said:
£97 a month on water and sewerage is extortionate, however these costs didn't simply quadruple overnight.
They've had 15 years where they could have got off their arses and improvised rainwater recovery systems, grey water for toilet flushing, soakaways, communal sewerage even...
Indeed, there's a business opportunity there for a budding 'night soil' man. You could then diversify into installing septic tanks/cesspits and then emptying them.They've had 15 years where they could have got off their arses and improvised rainwater recovery systems, grey water for toilet flushing, soakaways, communal sewerage even...
Fittster said:
So while this is being sorted out in court, the bond holders or the people without access to mains water and sewage?
Morally, the people should have access to water and sewerage and the US Federal governement should be stepping in and repaying the cost of implementing the new sewage treatment network.Legally, Bond holders should be repaid and the people responsible for taking and receiving the bribes incarcerated
It all sounds very similar to the mountains of debt the labour party saddled the UK with. . . . . . dodgy PFI deal implemented by corrupt politicians, leaves populous with dwindling services and increasing bills.
It’s only lacking Mandlescum, bLiar and Winky!
AJS- said:
I trust them to die off if they don't.
If it really were in my interests to water them, why must it be done through the tax system?
Water is a really basic example, but the more you help people to have the benefits of economic progress without actually progressing themselves, the more extreme these problems become, and the more you clean up after people's mistakes, the more catastrophic mistakes they will make. And more often.
What's the bet these corrupt officials who drove the town to bankruptcy in the first place were elected on the back of wild promises of great expenditure with lower taxation, and free pot noodles and cider (or the Alabamian equivalent) for all.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, sanitation is one thing I'm willing to compromise on. Cholera doesn't discriminate on if you've paid your sewerage bill or not.If it really were in my interests to water them, why must it be done through the tax system?
Water is a really basic example, but the more you help people to have the benefits of economic progress without actually progressing themselves, the more extreme these problems become, and the more you clean up after people's mistakes, the more catastrophic mistakes they will make. And more often.
What's the bet these corrupt officials who drove the town to bankruptcy in the first place were elected on the back of wild promises of great expenditure with lower taxation, and free pot noodles and cider (or the Alabamian equivalent) for all.
Mobile Chicane said:
£97 a month on water and sewerage is extortionate, however these costs didn't simply quadruple overnight.
They've had 15 years where they could have got off their arses and improvised rainwater recovery systems, grey water for toilet flushing, soakaways, communal sewerage even...
Supply of fresh drinking water? That's the hard bit, what you suggested is relatively easy. AFAIK the water and sewerage rates are not split there, did they have the option to save money by dealing with sewerage themselves? At what point do these people decide the bill is getting too expensive and do they have the resources anyway? They've had 15 years where they could have got off their arses and improvised rainwater recovery systems, grey water for toilet flushing, soakaways, communal sewerage even...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
One does wonder how the Wild West was ever won. Seemingly in the US people have lost even the most basic survival skills. Washing in bottled water - wtf?For a start they could club together and sink a borehole. Or harvest water from rivers and boil / sterilise it - as does much of Africa and Asia. Or simply run an illegal pipeline to an official supply...
Since the dawn of time, necessity has been the Mother of Invention. But no, these lazy feckers would rather moan and do nothing!
Mobile Chicane said:
One does wonder how the Wild West was ever won. Seemingly in the US people have lost even the most basic survival skills. Washing in bottled water - wtf?
For a start they could club together and sink a borehole. Or harvest water from rivers and boil / sterilise it - as does much of Africa and Asia. Or simply run an illegal pipeline to an official supply...
Since the dawn of time, necessity has been the Mother of Invention. But no, these lazy feckers would rather moan and do nothing!
http://www.geologicboreholes.co.uk/cost-of-a-boreh...For a start they could club together and sink a borehole. Or harvest water from rivers and boil / sterilise it - as does much of Africa and Asia. Or simply run an illegal pipeline to an official supply...
Since the dawn of time, necessity has been the Mother of Invention. But no, these lazy feckers would rather moan and do nothing!
I've seen a figure of $12500 on the internet too.
You know what, I would like to see this happen to you.
Only in the USofA, the land of the free, but a land of extremes.
I was asked what the British thought about Health Care Reforms in the USA, and I asked why a country so rich allows 10 million of it's citizens to live without access to basic health care.
This water thing is just a sub set of that injustice. We should invade, and free the people from the tirany.
I was asked what the British thought about Health Care Reforms in the USA, and I asked why a country so rich allows 10 million of it's citizens to live without access to basic health care.
This water thing is just a sub set of that injustice. We should invade, and free the people from the tirany.
I've seen some pretty nasty and disparaging comments aimed towards the less well off members of society on PH - but this thread really does show some people up for being pretty self-centered, uncaring and, to be blunt, complete and utter 
s.
There are very few things I believe should be supported by the state for those in 'poverty' - but sanitation and access to clean drinking water at affordable cost really is a basic need of a developed society.
I really do feel pity for those who can't see that sometimes doing something for the good of society as a whole over-rides any personal views on the fecklessness of the people in question.
s.There are very few things I believe should be supported by the state for those in 'poverty' - but sanitation and access to clean drinking water at affordable cost really is a basic need of a developed society.
I really do feel pity for those who can't see that sometimes doing something for the good of society as a whole over-rides any personal views on the fecklessness of the people in question.
Providing sewerage and water supply is very expensive. Some of you clearly do not have a clue. In my opinion it is of such fundamental importance it should not be goverened by market forces. As noted above, some of you come across as right heartless selfish tts.
ts.Edited by vonuber on Thursday 15th December 23:58
Crazy state of affairs.
Plenty of folks in the US know how to get by, from my experience they're generally a lot better at it than us. The ones who get on with it don't make for particularly great news fodder, however. Finding some nascar-clad blimp to piss and moan because he can't afford to take a dump does.
Mobile Chicane said:
One does wonder how the Wild West was ever won. Seemingly in the US people have lost even the most basic survival skills. Washing in bottled water - wtf?
Steeped in irony given how fast the UK gets its arse in its hands after a little bit of snow or cold. Plenty of folks in the US know how to get by, from my experience they're generally a lot better at it than us. The ones who get on with it don't make for particularly great news fodder, however. Finding some nascar-clad blimp to piss and moan because he can't afford to take a dump does.
Chicharito said:
I've seen some pretty nasty and disparaging comments aimed towards the less well off members of society on PH - but this thread really does show some people up for being pretty self-centered, uncaring and, to be blunt, complete and utter s.
There are very few things I believe should be supported by the state for those in 'poverty' - but sanitation and access to clean drinking water at affordable cost really is a basic need of a developed society.
I really do feel pity for those who can't see that sometimes doing something for the good of society as a whole over-rides any personal views on the fecklessness of the people in question.
Point missed. In a big way.s.There are very few things I believe should be supported by the state for those in 'poverty' - but sanitation and access to clean drinking water at affordable cost really is a basic need of a developed society.
I really do feel pity for those who can't see that sometimes doing something for the good of society as a whole over-rides any personal views on the fecklessness of the people in question.
These people could club together and help themselves.
We live in unprecedented times. People will have to get used to having a lot less money. Moreover being resourceful and acting as a community.
Such a concept may be hard to stomach for the Murkans where the basic rule of Society seems to be every man for himself.
Sort of offtopic, but watching Countryfile there was a segment on water supply; combined with the usual handwringing about how we should wash ourselves with only a thimbleful in the morning there was some throbber from one of the water robberbarons. Apparently when water leaks from their pipes it's okay because some of it ends up in the watertable
, but if consumers do something frivolous like drinking it or taking a bath the world will end and children will die.
Mr. water robberbaron spokeman;
1. If your pipe network didn't resemble a length of that sprinkler hose stuff, there wouldn't be a shortage.
2. Your statement that the population has grown in the last 2 decades and consumption has grown with it butters no parsnips with me; your inability to forsee such a blindingly obvious outcome and plan accordingly demands that Bob the Dinosaur be sent to your place of work to administer a corporate wedgie.
, but if consumers do something frivolous like drinking it or taking a bath the world will end and children will die.Mr. water robberbaron spokeman;
1. If your pipe network didn't resemble a length of that sprinkler hose stuff, there wouldn't be a shortage.
2. Your statement that the population has grown in the last 2 decades and consumption has grown with it butters no parsnips with me; your inability to forsee such a blindingly obvious outcome and plan accordingly demands that Bob the Dinosaur be sent to your place of work to administer a corporate wedgie.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 16th December 01:47
grantone said:
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, sanitation is one thing I'm willing to compromise on. Cholera doesn't discriminate on if you've paid your sewerage bill or not.
I suspect it does, to a large degree, discriminate against those without access to clean water.People were worried about a cholera outbreak in the recent floods in Bangkok. Of course it would have hit the poorest hardest, especially those who built flimsy houses in flood prone areas and relied on the basic state water supply for all their needs. The rest had relatively little to worry about, and were anyway able to clear off until the waters went down.
The sad thing is that most of those hammered in the Bangkok floods were actually working for a very low wage, or had their businesses destroyed by the floods. They upped sticks, some of them built temporary shelter on motorway bridges and sold water and crisps to those stuck in traffic. In that case I don't mind helping on a voluntary basis.
As far as I can see those complaining most about this are the typical professional victims - overweight, unemployed morons whose first response to everything is that the government must do something.
In the US there are many levels of political control.
Smaller communities are often governed by people who have quite a low standard of education and are very often minorities (even though there are quite a few of them
)
Trying hard not to get in the dog house here.
They do not want interference from the State or County and run their own affairs (as is their right).
Two major problems are; no fiscal responsibility and incompetence, with fraud running a close third.
When it all goes belly up the State has to step in. Then they use what little money is left on lawyers to prevent the State taking over.
Appeals to State Supreme Court etc.
The State took over one place not too far from me, the audit was incredible. Jail time for the nautiest.
Poor people vote in the worst people and end up with the worst service.
If a mayor of a place gives the job of Head of Civil Works to a Civil Rights lawyer then you can expect to be knee deep in it.
Sorry, no sympathy here, it's my taxes correcting the problems.
Smaller communities are often governed by people who have quite a low standard of education and are very often minorities (even though there are quite a few of them
)Trying hard not to get in the dog house here.
They do not want interference from the State or County and run their own affairs (as is their right).
Two major problems are; no fiscal responsibility and incompetence, with fraud running a close third.
When it all goes belly up the State has to step in. Then they use what little money is left on lawyers to prevent the State taking over.
Appeals to State Supreme Court etc.
The State took over one place not too far from me, the audit was incredible. Jail time for the nautiest.
Poor people vote in the worst people and end up with the worst service.
If a mayor of a place gives the job of Head of Civil Works to a Civil Rights lawyer then you can expect to be knee deep in it.
Sorry, no sympathy here, it's my taxes correcting the problems.
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