Doctor wins £4.5m quid for discrimination

[mph1977]

DSM2 said:

If you think that the medical evidence is credible, and if you really believe that they would never be able to work again, then you might think the award was just.

You'd also be a mug.

No wonder the Country is fked.

and which Of the royal colleges are you a fellow of ?

from which medical school did you graduate ?

how long did it take you assess all the documentation and undertake proper assessments of the claimants as patients ?

[SirBlade]

bigbubba said:

Without wanting to be too provocative I don't think it was entirely neccesary for the husband to quit work AND claim.

It seems a little bit like he thought he was on to a good one, how wrong was he?.........

I wonder what would happen if it wasn't two Doctors. Let's say it was two factory workers, would the court have taken them quite so seriously?

No, the court would not have taken two factory works quite so seriously. Who in their right mind would?
Factory works are uneducated plebs, everyone knows that (rolls eyes).

The health business is a closed shop. It is hugely incestious, and these two people are blacklisted,
they know this, the judge knows this, every doctor knows this.

They deserve every penny, and the facility she worked for should be shut down. I hope it and the rotten mgmt team suffer.

[carmonk]

SirBlade said:

bigbubba said:

Without wanting to be too provocative I don't think it was entirely neccesary for the husband to quit work AND claim.

It seems a little bit like he thought he was on to a good one, how wrong was he?.........

I wonder what would happen if it wasn't two Doctors. Let's say it was two factory workers, would the court have taken them quite so seriously?

No, the court would not have taken two factory works quite so seriously. Who in their right mind would?
Factory works are uneducated plebs, everyone knows that (rolls eyes).

The health business is a closed shop. It is hugely incestious, and these two people are blacklisted,
they know this, the judge knows this, every doctor knows this.

Just to be clear, you're saying that she was awarded this money on the basis of an assumption that she wouldn't be able to get another job? Because that's not what it says in the document, it makes it quite clear that the judgement alleges she would be physically and mentally incapable of getting another job of any significance.

[fido]

mph1977 said:

and which Of the royal colleges are you a fellow of ?

from which medical school did you graduate ?

how long did it take you assess all the documentation and undertake proper assessments of the claimants as patients ?

Brilliant. So we now need a lawyer who is also medically trained to determine whether she can get another job.
Tell you what .. just carry on writing the cheques for your chums .. and keep on 'bailing out' my industry [financial services] and we can call it 'evens' - though i won't get to spend my retirement, if i manage to get there, on the golf course.

[SirBlade]

carmonk said:

Just to be clear, you're saying that she was awarded this money on the basis of an assumption that she wouldn't be able to get another job? Because that's not what it says in the document, it makes it quite clear that the judgement alleges she would be physically and mentally incapable of getting another job of any significance.

Are you hard of understanding? it has been clearly explained (to you) over and over again that she has suffered terrible psychlogical damage at the hands of her former employer.

And you seriously asking that question?

I know you've already had your ar$e handed to you on a plate by 968,
do you fancy another round in the ring?

This poor woman will never work in the medical business again, mental health issues or otherwise.

[carmonk]

SirBlade said:

carmonk said:

Just to be clear, you're saying that she was awarded this money on the basis of an assumption that she wouldn't be able to get another job? Because that's not what it says in the document, it makes it quite clear that the judgement alleges she would be physically and mentally incapable of getting another job of any significance.

Are you hard of understanding? it has been clearly explained (to you) over and over again that she has suffered terrible psychlogical damage at the hands of her former employer.

I understand perfectly. You said "The health business is a closed shop. It is hugely incestious, and these two people are blacklisted, they know this, the judge knows this, every doctor knows this." Yet there is no mention of getting money for being blacklisted. So I ask you again, why did you say this and where is your evidence?

SirBlade said:

And you seriously asking that question?

Well duh, it looks like it. Answer it.

SirBlade said:

I know you've already had your ar$e handed to you on a plate by 968,
do you fancy another round in the ring?

Please stop being so embarrassing. Are you 9 years old or something?

SirBlade said:

This poor woman will never work in the medical business again, mental health issues or otherwise.

There you go again. You are asserting that even without the mental health issues she would never get another job. Point to that documentation that tells us that, or indeed any evidence of your own.

[Deva Link]

Derestrictor said:

It is a fiendish case of atomic grade bleating and playing a long game which has resulted in a fantastic windfall.

No - it's an atomic grade screw-up by the Trust's senior management to have allowed this situation to develop and run.

Derestrictor said:

There is a massive difference between earning 200 bags and grabbing 4.5 bar.

Almost half the award was to to cover her tax liability, so the net cost to the taxpayer is a much less than the headline figure.

[0a]

So she has to pay £2m in tax? A strange transfer from the NHS budget to the general coffers, quite bizarre in my opinion. I though compensation and the like wasn't taxed?

I have some sympathy for her but £4.5m seems obscene to me.

[Deva Link]

0a said:

I thought compensation and the like wasn't taxed?

The penalty part of the compensation isn't taxed - but that was only a small part of it. The bulk of the award was for loss of earning and loss of pension.

I'm a bit dubious on the tax treatment the Tribunal applied, and remarkably they admit they didn't understand it but relied on the figures produced by the claimant's representatives. I suppose they should have sought expert advice, but that would have presumeably resulted in another massive amount for costs.

[0a]

Thankyou, it makes sense that tax should be paid on any amount that reflects earnings that would have been taxed in any case.

I know someone who received £5k after an injury in a Supermarket. I asked them and they said such compensation was tax free? I'd guess that time off work would be taken as sick pay, so this was to compensate for medical bills, the inability to drive and do sports, ie no lost earnings element.

[mph1977]

0a said:

Thankyou, it makes sense that tax should be paid on any amount that reflects earnings that would have been taxed in any case.

I know someone who received £5k after an injury in a Supermarket. I asked them and they said such compensation was tax free? I'd guess that time off work would be taken as sick pay, so this was to compensate for medical bills, the inability to drive and do sports, ie no lost earnings element.

Occupational sick pay is reclaimed by your employer if you recieve loss of earnings compo - that sick pay will have been taxed as normal when you were paid it at the time

[dandarez]

I have just read the judgment (well, not all of it, too much legal jargon - how appropriate!). I took it initially that her hubby was a medical Dr too, apparently he is/was a academic Dr, ie a research scientist on £38k - hardly a life changing salary.

Yet Dr Michalak gets £4,452,206.60 for the sex and race discrimination. Of this sum, the doctor was awarded £30,000 for 'injury to feelings' and £56,000 for 'psychiatric damage'.

Christ, if over my numbers of years in work I had received 'any' recompense for what I consider to have been 'injury to my feelings' I'd be set up and permanently relaxing on a beach in the Carribean!

I did what most do, or rather have no choice but to do, get some backbone and carry on. I did, and started my own business so I was in charge.
It's called 'life' for the majority of us.

Ok, no one is denying she obviously had a terrible time and associated depression - I know a good lady who had this from the stress she received at work, it became that bad that one morning on the way to work she exited her car and jumped fully clothed into the river from a bridge (suicidal? If so, stress can't get much worse than that can it?). She came into work soaked to the skin and had no reasoning for why she'd done it. A downward spiral began. Where is she now? Gradually getting back to normal, at the same place of work, and trying to earn her salary again. stty boss is still there but she got no recompense, she had no resources to take it further ...but she did get lots of friendly help from those closest to her and some backbone and is on the mend!

I am not against anyone getting recompense, no one should have to put up with what she had to, but this sum awarded, like others say, has a nasty odour about it.

Her Dr (scientist) husband says, and I quote 'Eva became unable to accomplish even the simplest of tasks without oversight and supervision.
Eva began to leave the cooker on, the iron on, to leave the house without locking the door, to go shopping and come back with the wrong items, to go to bed without turning everything off, and she became sensitive to strangers.'
She would not get up in the mornings, or would not get dressed all day. I was having to take (my son) to school and leave work early to get (my son) from school. I was working from home a lot. Eva had not a hope in Hell of coping with the Trust’s process alone, and they knew that.'
'Eva’s state of mind predictably deteriorated. Eva once went to Tesco by car and came back on foot – pushing the trolley nearly all
the way to our home before realising she had driven to Tesco. Eva fell down the stairs at home. Eva was constantly crying and tearful.'

So, it was sheer luck then that the house didn't catch fire, that it was never burgled, and he was lucky in being able to get time off (many would get instant dismissal). And was she not endangering other road users by driving whilst in her 'state of mind'?

She fell down the stairs (but with no accidents nor injury/ies it seems as none is mentioned)..
She left the car at Tesco but miraculously had no trouble finding her way back home, and whilst guiding a Tesco trolly at the same time and possibly full of the wrong items!... hmm, where was her son at this time if it was a period when hubby was at work?
She luckily had very helpful family back in Poland, and apparently went back there too. No problems in flying back to her homeland then nor any fear of flying, one of the associated factors that can come into play with people in her state of mind?
One could go on. Too many inconsistencies when you read it all.

I've no time for the ste people that caused her problems, they abound in all workplaces, but I also have no time for what seems an incredulous payout.

[carmonk]

dandarez said:

Christ, if over my numbers of years in work I had received 'any' recompense for what I consider to have been 'injury to my feelings' I'd be set up and permanently relaxing on a beach in the Carribean!

And I'd own the island you were relaxing on.

[dandarez]

carmonk said:

dandarez said:

Christ, if over my numbers of years in work I had received 'any' recompense for what I consider to have been 'injury to my feelings' I'd be set up and permanently relaxing on a beach in the Carribean!

And I'd own the island you were relaxing on.

Nah, you wouldn't. It's called CUBA!

(needed a bit of light relief, this thread)

[Deva Link]

dandarez said:

I did what most do, or rather have no choice but to do, get some backbone and carry on.

She couldn't though. She was suspended from work and as such she couldn't work as a Doctor.

[Mario149]

I think basically what it comes down to is whether we accept that this woman is now incapable/unable to work in her field for the rest of her working life through no fault of her own i.e. do you trust the judgement of several medical professionals who say that this is the case. If you believe it is true, and have actually *read* the judgement in full (which I suspect many people commenting on here haven't), then the compensation amount of about £2M after taxes makes total sense and is totally justified.

If you choose not to believe the medical professionals with umpteen years of training and clinical experience, and decide that your gut feeling from reading one media article and using it to judge someone you've never met, then pretty much any amount over her lost earnings to date is going to be too much.

Obviously I can't be sure as I don't have access to records, but there have probably been similar cases in the past that didn't receive similar coverage/outrage because the amount was smaller because the claimant was a regular person on say £20k per year so would have only netted a few hundred K rather than 2M

[carmonk]

dandarez said:

carmonk said:

dandarez said:

Christ, if over my numbers of years in work I had received 'any' recompense for what I consider to have been 'injury to my feelings' I'd be set up and permanently relaxing on a beach in the Carribean!

And I'd own the island you were relaxing on.

Nah, you wouldn't. It's called CUBA!

(needed a bit of light relief, this thread)

[Deva Link]

dandarez said:

I've no time for the ste people that caused her problems, they abound in all workplaces, but I also have no time for what seems an incredulous payout.

I see this is the same sort of light as having an accident with a drunk driver - the details don't matter all that much, it's going go down against the drunk driver.

In this case the Trust was the drunk driver.

[Marf]

Mario149 said:

I think basically what it comes down to is whether we accept that this woman is now incapable/unable to work in her field for the rest of her working life through no fault of her own i.e. do you trust the judgement of several medical professionals who say that this is the case. If you believe it is true, and have actually *read* the judgement in full (which I suspect many people commenting on here haven't), then the compensation amount of about £2M after taxes makes total sense and is totally justified.

If you choose not to believe the medical professionals with umpteen years of training and clinical experience, and decide that your gut feeling from reading one media article and using it to judge someone you've never met, then pretty much any amount over her lost earnings to date is going to be too much.

Obviously I can't be sure as I don't have access to records, but there have probably been similar cases in the past that didn't receive similar coverage/outrage because the amount was smaller because the claimant was a regular person on say £20k per year so would have only netted a few hundred K rather than 2M

Why investigate things for yourself when you can get het up, frothy and hot under the collar after being told what to think by a newspaper?

[Derestrictor]

Deva Link said:

Derestrictor said:

It is a fiendish case of atomic grade bleating and playing a long game which has resulted in a fantastic windfall.

No - it's an atomic grade screw-up by the Trust's senior management to have allowed this situation to develop and run.

Derestrictor said:

There is a massive difference between earning 200 bags and grabbing 4.5 bar.

Almost half the award was to to cover her tax liability, so the net cost to the taxpayer is a much less than the headline figure.

Jesus Christ when did you last earn that kind of money?

This, like 99% of compo scumwerk is naught less than a tale of extreme cry babyism bringing home not just some bacon but a whole f@cking herd.

It's a national scandal, like the whole HSE / blame-claim litigation gig. Secret runes baffling the masses by the wanton obfuscation of common sense, to wit legalese; a population of slack jawed hypocrites educated way beyond their intelligence.

I don't expect anyone in the game to condemn it - if I'm honest, I can't say I would if I were plugged into such a guaranteed income - but it doesn't alter the fact that to anyone outside this magic circle of bullst, professional protectionism, it reeks to high heaven.

As an aside - answer my question - how do you predict future income streams? that very Blunt Dilemma, as it were?