'a proper Corgi registered guy'

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

Ferg said:

With all due respect, the Landlords Gas Safety Certificate does NOT certify that all the joints have been checked. If it was intended to, we would.
We do the job we are requested to do and stop short of doing other work which we HAVEN'T been requested to. It's a very simple principle.
I still believe your fitter should have given the joints a hand tightness test as it's simple and shows up loose fittings. To start taking a spanner to joints that may well be sound (according to a tightness test) is asking for trouble. Overtightened compression fittings leak. However, that's a personal preference and NOT part of the Safety Check AS LAID DOWN IN THE GAS REGULATIONS.

As I stated earlier, in what job do you do a check which has carefully laid out criteria, THEN do lots of other work too. "Yes Sir, the MOT's done, it passed, but we've been 'round the whole car and torqued up all the nuts and bolts for you and greased everything."...

Strange.

Eh up Ferg.

Cheers for the reply.

Now look, I'm not trying to annoy or wind anyone up here - I'm only reporting an actual incident I was involved in, with facts.

I like your comparison to the car MOT thing - and yes, you're right. But I might suggest that an MOT place would possibly warn the customer of anything else they'd spotted OUTSIDE of the legal confines of the MOT, that might cause danger to the owner.

But the point is, to quote your comment that 'you do the job you're paid to do' - that's fine bud, but I'm clueless when it comes to gas, heating and boilers etc. as I reckon most people are. So we're never going to think to say to you 'oh, while you're here, I don't know if the CP12 covers everything or not, so please check all the other fittings out if not, and let me know?'

We just assume that a 'Gas Safety Inspection' covers anything to do with 'Gas Safety' - yes? Or no?



So as I said - let's see, my 5 properties multiplied by 12 years of owning them equals me having instructed and paid for 60 CP12 checks with numerous gas specialists over that time. On not one occasion has ANY of them said to me 'you do know this check doesn't cover EVERYTHING, don't you?'

Because if they had - I would have happily paid for extended checks.

Do YOU advise landlords of this fact every time? Do you?

[Mojooo]

This guy prosecuted twice for doing gas installations and still not sent to jail. I hope the judge sleeps at night when matey ends up killing someone:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-yh-10612.htm

[Ferg]

In all honesty, Ray, I've been doing this job long enough to know what might be an issue and I tend to run a hand over fittings that might have been loosened for purging or whatever at some time during the last year. But without lifting boards we rely on a tightness test for pipework integrity. Others may not and they are doing the job as laid down by the H&SE.
For anyone to suggest we don't check enough...well take it up with the H&SE. Where do you stop? Why a year? If it was me I'd make the service compulsory. Whilst at the other end of the spectrum I was called late on Friday to a Gas meter capped by BG who panicked on a black mark on the wall by a flue. No heat, hot water or cooking because someone can't tell a heat mark on a wall from a pipe removed 10 years ago.
Point is...we all have our own way of doing things, but just like an MOT won't stop your brakes leaking a week later, a safety check won't guarrantee anything other than it was 'OK on the day'.
That's my final word on it I think.

[eccles]

Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

So as I said - let's see, my 5 properties multiplied by 12 years of owning them equals me having instructed and paid for 60 CP12 checks with numerous gas specialists over that time. On not one occasion has ANY of them said to me 'you do know this check doesn't cover EVERYTHING, don't you?'

And in all that time this is the only problem you've had, that to me says the general standard of the tradesmen you've used must be ok, and the checks they've done sufficient.
You'll always get the odd isolated incident, yes yours was very serious, but you can't guarantee that it wouldn't happen with all the checks in the world.

[eccles]

Oakey said:

So basically, the Gas Safety certificate isn't worth wiping your arse on because it only has a specific set of criteria which 'professional engineers' will rigidly follow whilst possibly ignoring things that could be a potential problem?

'Possibly', 'Potential'

[groak]

In larger scale letting operations there is an in-house gas team which has to be committed to compliance (the annual safety check), service (which for convenience and economy is - in normal circumstances - done at the same time as the annual safety check), and operation - ie making sure everything is operating fault-free in every system all the time.

Anytime any registered fitter is in any dwelling for any reason there is an obligation to ensure safety is compliant, so , for example, if an appliance is being installed/uninstalled, another safety checking opportunity arises.

A quite different 'gas culture' evolves from the one in place between individual landlords and the gas fitters they use to fulfill their legal requirements. We also have a tradesfirm which carries out (gas) work for unconnected third parties, and their work is done as per instruction which is not the same thing at all. Because obviously if you're employed as part of a team which is dedicated to looking after all gas matters arising in a firm's hundreds of properties you don't just go in, tick the required boxes, and vanish again leaving any other havoc to it's fate because it's not on the H&SE's list or part of the job description/instruction. Your job as part of the agency team is to make sure everything's safe, in service, and operating properly in every property at all times, and to sort it if it ain't.

[groak]

Oakey said:

So basically, the Gas Safety certificate isn't worth wiping your arse on because it only has a specific set of criteria which 'professional engineers' will rigidly follow whilst possibly ignoring things that could be a potential problem?

Sadly, you can pay (a chunky sum) to go on a fast track course which enables you to become a registered gasfitter in 6 weeks. Previous experience is not required. How safe does that make you feel about confidence in the GSC? Flippin' joke.

[Oakey]

eccles said:

'Possibly', 'Potential'

Sure, let's just ignore Ray's example of where his boiler started leaking just days after it was certified 'safe'

[CHIEF]

groak said:

Sadly, you can pay (a chunky sum) to go on a fast track course which enables you to become a registered gasfitter in 6 weeks. Previous experience is not required. How safe does that make you feel about
confidence in the GSC? Flippin' joke.

Now that is a very scary thought.