Discussion
Odie said:
The challenge with all the highstreet names is that they think they need to compete with the internet, instead playing to the strength that they have a bricks and mortar presence and can offer far more customer service and quality than internet retailers ever can.
Im not saying its easy but by not understanding that internet and highstreet are 2 different animals is a big big mistake.
Clintons went under because they where trying to compete with internet, but why? Why no instore gift wrapping service for a nominal fee? why no facility to design and print your own cards (or wrapping paper for that matter) on site?
These struggling business's have a building, an on street presence with staff in it, f
king use it...
This.Im not saying its easy but by not understanding that internet and highstreet are 2 different animals is a big big mistake.
Clintons went under because they where trying to compete with internet, but why? Why no instore gift wrapping service for a nominal fee? why no facility to design and print your own cards (or wrapping paper for that matter) on site?
These struggling business's have a building, an on street presence with staff in it, f
king use it...This, this, this, this, this.
Mind, employing minimum wage student sh*t heads who struggle to interact with anyone over the age of 22 doesn't seem to help. I found a second hand game in 'Game' once that I knew was £5 cheaper down the road. I offered the kid on the till the lesser price, and he said;
"F*ck you mate, this isn't a f*cking car boot sale"
Had I not been with the missus, and in, you know, an otherwise civilised environment, I'd have pulled to kid out the shop and blacked an eye.
Customer service goes a long way, for me. I wouldn't mind paying high street price if they offered setup / local delivery or whatever. But all too often, the high street doesn't.
Douglas Adams predicted all this years ago
“Many years ago, this was a thriving, happy planet – people, cities, shops, a normal world.
Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more shoe shops than one might have thought necessary.
And slowly, insidiously, the numbers of these shoe shops were increasing. It’s a well known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more shoe shops there were, the more shoes they had to make and the worse and more unwearable they became.
And the worse they were to wear, the more people had to buy to keep themselves shod, and the more the shops proliferated until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is the termed the Shoe Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to build anything other than shoe shops.
Result – collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out. Those few who had the right kind of genetic instability mutated into birds – you’ve seen one of them – who cursed their feet, cursed the ground, and vowed that none should walk on it again. Unhappy lot.”
“Many years ago, this was a thriving, happy planet – people, cities, shops, a normal world.
Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more shoe shops than one might have thought necessary.
And slowly, insidiously, the numbers of these shoe shops were increasing. It’s a well known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more shoe shops there were, the more shoes they had to make and the worse and more unwearable they became.
And the worse they were to wear, the more people had to buy to keep themselves shod, and the more the shops proliferated until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is the termed the Shoe Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to build anything other than shoe shops.
Result – collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out. Those few who had the right kind of genetic instability mutated into birds – you’ve seen one of them – who cursed their feet, cursed the ground, and vowed that none should walk on it again. Unhappy lot.”
RealSquirrels said:
well, generally you have to rely on opinions in magazines, forums, photos for the appearance of things, i don't find that too much of a problem.
of course if something is really a heap of crap then you can return it anyway.
In that case you are exposed to marketing techniques and potentially biased opinions instead of forming your own judgement based upon what you have seen with your own eyes and touched with your own hands. I personally see more inconvenience in handing my money to someone before I am happy with the product and returning a product that doesn't satisfy is soooooo tedious. of course if something is really a heap of crap then you can return it anyway.
Horses for courses!
I'm kind of sad about this as I used to work for them in Blackpool at the small one and that work bizzarely helped me conquer a fear I had held since childhood - namely of heights - Odd but totally true.
Anyway a few years ago when DELL was hell etc I ended up having to buy PC's from there and PC World and always thought Comet the slightly better one of the two. I still used them for staff incentive prizes and had a favourite salesman there who was really helpful but just last week I went in on Windows 8 day and it was dead and tbh bit depressing they had some windows 8 laptops but little effort had been made and the big area of Windows 7 operating system boxes didn't help In stark contrast PC World/ Currys was really buzzing windows 8 laptops and desktops were in abundance the windows 7 ones having been moved to a smaller area or discounted heavily staff had at the least been briefed to some extent about Windows 8 and from the admittedly little I ear wigged were not telling porkies. They REALLY had made an effort and it showed.
In my home town Blackpool we have 2 comet stores so if they do go it looks like more unemployment for the area. PC World I think became a bit of an anachronism to DSG and they took the wise decision to merge the stores.
Either way it's sad
The guys advice about the vouchers I think is correct I remember ZAVVI going and seeing people who had got the vouchers for xmas trying to change them and being refused etc. Whilst I could understand the technicalities and have some sympathy for the staff who were dealing with it (whilst facing redundancy) BUT the guy I the queu couldn't understand why they were trading yet his vouchers he had received were useless.
As regards the internet and using shops as viewing centres it does damage places IMHO small independent phone shops encountered these problems as well as others and there are scant few of them left now
Anyway a few years ago when DELL was hell etc I ended up having to buy PC's from there and PC World and always thought Comet the slightly better one of the two. I still used them for staff incentive prizes and had a favourite salesman there who was really helpful but just last week I went in on Windows 8 day and it was dead and tbh bit depressing they had some windows 8 laptops but little effort had been made and the big area of Windows 7 operating system boxes didn't help In stark contrast PC World/ Currys was really buzzing windows 8 laptops and desktops were in abundance the windows 7 ones having been moved to a smaller area or discounted heavily staff had at the least been briefed to some extent about Windows 8 and from the admittedly little I ear wigged were not telling porkies. They REALLY had made an effort and it showed.
In my home town Blackpool we have 2 comet stores so if they do go it looks like more unemployment for the area. PC World I think became a bit of an anachronism to DSG and they took the wise decision to merge the stores.
Either way it's sad
The guys advice about the vouchers I think is correct I remember ZAVVI going and seeing people who had got the vouchers for xmas trying to change them and being refused etc. Whilst I could understand the technicalities and have some sympathy for the staff who were dealing with it (whilst facing redundancy) BUT the guy I the queu couldn't understand why they were trading yet his vouchers he had received were useless.
As regards the internet and using shops as viewing centres it does damage places IMHO small independent phone shops encountered these problems as well as others and there are scant few of them left now
Legend83 said:
I thought the writing was on the wall for Comet when a last minute diversion to its Luton store before holiday required me to pay £29.99 for an 8gb SD card for my SLR.
The same item can be bought from Amazon for £7.99.
But this is exactly the reason these stores need to exist.The same item can be bought from Amazon for £7.99.
£29.99 a small price to pay to have 8gb of photos of your holiday. Had the Comet not been there you would be £29.99 better off but relying on your own memory.... Next you will complain that sun tan lotion costs more at the airport than it does it the £1 shop...
Amazon/online retailers have there place which is when you have the time to research, compare and don't need the item immediately. We still require high street stores for those 'need it now' moments!!
That said, if Comet do go pear shaped I could do with a new laptop!
johnvthe2nd said:
Douglas Adams predicted all this years ago
“Many years ago, this was a thriving, happy planet – people, cities, shops, a normal world.
Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more shoe shops than one might have thought necessary.
And slowly, insidiously, the numbers of these shoe shops were increasing. It’s a well known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more shoe shops there were, the more shoes they had to make and the worse and more unwearable they became.
And the worse they were to wear, the more people had to buy to keep themselves shod, and the more the shops proliferated until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is the termed the Shoe Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to build anything other than shoe shops.
Result – collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out. Those few who had the right kind of genetic instability mutated into birds – you’ve seen one of them – who cursed their feet, cursed the ground, and vowed that none should walk on it again. Unhappy lot.”
I predict we will have coffee hating birds before long.“Many years ago, this was a thriving, happy planet – people, cities, shops, a normal world.
Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more shoe shops than one might have thought necessary.
And slowly, insidiously, the numbers of these shoe shops were increasing. It’s a well known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more shoe shops there were, the more shoes they had to make and the worse and more unwearable they became.
And the worse they were to wear, the more people had to buy to keep themselves shod, and the more the shops proliferated until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is the termed the Shoe Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to build anything other than shoe shops.
Result – collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out. Those few who had the right kind of genetic instability mutated into birds – you’ve seen one of them – who cursed their feet, cursed the ground, and vowed that none should walk on it again. Unhappy lot.”
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That was me, and just for the record, the cabinets I received from the online seller were actually much better quality than the ones I was shown in store.. so I saved SIX THOUSAND POUNDS and got a better kitchen.I firmly believe that high street firms can be competitive, and will do my best to support local firms, but if you try to treat your customer as a cash cow then you can't expect people not to shop around.
The high street aka retailing is undergoing a regular bout of re-invention. Whilst you or I may grieve over the demise of pick 'n mix, many more are revelling in browsing Play.com and buying stacks of fillums for 99p.
All this works if you are shifting commodity items. For specialist needs, however, there will be specialist suppliers. They may be online, in a shop, or a hybrid, but the market will decide. Don't overlook the personal touch - there has always been an affinity for human engagement and that is harder over t'internet (although you could have a satisfactory interaction with your regular delivery agent - many do).
We used to be regular users of online grocery supplies, until successive 'poor quality' issues (short shelf life and/or fruit bruising) took us back in store, and we're still schlepping down to the superstore every 7 days to give them an insight into our lifestyle/buying a weeks' food.
I still dislike Amazon, though.
All this works if you are shifting commodity items. For specialist needs, however, there will be specialist suppliers. They may be online, in a shop, or a hybrid, but the market will decide. Don't overlook the personal touch - there has always been an affinity for human engagement and that is harder over t'internet (although you could have a satisfactory interaction with your regular delivery agent - many do).
We used to be regular users of online grocery supplies, until successive 'poor quality' issues (short shelf life and/or fruit bruising) took us back in store, and we're still schlepping down to the superstore every 7 days to give them an insight into our lifestyle/buying a weeks' food.
I still dislike Amazon, though.
Pints said:
login access only.
Any chance of a copy-paste of key message, please?
Comet edges towards administrationAny chance of a copy-paste of key message, please?
By Andrea Felsted, Senior Retail Correspondent
Comet is on the brink of going into administration as early as Thursday putting 6,000 jobs at risk and continuing the carnage on the British high street.
The electricals retailer, which was acquired by private investment firm OpCapita for £2 less than a year ago, has lined up Deloitte as administrator, according to people familiar with the situation.
The retailer suffered a cash crunch as it tried to stock up for the peak Christmas trading season. It was trading without credit insurance, which protects suppliers if their customer collapses. Supplier terms became more onerous recently, after it emerged that OpCapita had received several unsolicited approaches for the business, people with knowledge of the matter added.
The expected collapse of Comet caps a tumultuous year on the British high street. It comes just weeks after JJB Sports went into administration, with the loss of 2,000 jobs. This year has also seen the demise of Clinton Cards, Game Group, Blacks Leisure and Peacocks. Although all were salvaged in some form, hundreds of stores closed and thousands of jobs were lost.
The expected administration is likely to stoke controversy as OpCapita received a £50m cash dowry from Kesa, Comet’s previous owner, to take it off their hands. Now known as Darty, the group also retained Comet’s pension liabilities.
The likely collapse comes four years after the collapse of MFI, the furniture chain. OpCapita, then known as Merchant Equity Partners, bought MFI in October 2006 and negotiated a £130m dowry. It was put up for sale in the summer of 2008 and was sold in September, but collapsed in November that year.
OpCapita had tried hard to make Comet work, the people familiar with the matter said, bringing in John Clare, the former chief executive of Dixons. However, the difficulties of trading without credit insurance had proved insurmountable.
Mr Clare said in July he hoped the business would break even or do better in its first year under the new ownership. There had also been hopes earlier this year that credit insurance would be restored.
Comet has received a number of unsolicited approaches, and it is possible that some of the business will be sold, saving some stores and jobs.
All parties declined to comment.
The string of retail casualties has taken its toll on the British high street, with chains closing an average of 20 stores a day in the first half of this year, accelerating to 30 a day in July and August, according to the Local Data Company and PwC.
essayer said:
That was me, and just for the record, the cabinets I received from the online seller were actually much better quality than the ones I was shown in store.. so I saved SIX THOUSAND POUNDS and got a better kitchen.
I firmly believe that high street firms can be competitive, and will do my best to support local firms, but if you try to treat your customer as a cash cow then you can't expect people not to shop around.
Well all I can say is well done! Having worked in that industry in the past I am surprised by the margin of profit that one designer tried to make as most suppliers I ever worked with had set SSPs that were published and the retailer recieved a discount off the SSP. That meant anyone charging over list price was mental and that even if the retailer passed on the SAME product at cost it still wouldn't represent such a price differential as you found. I only see massive cost-retail markups in the DIY sheds, where the value of the product is the least in my opinion, a product independents don't have access to so a technique of artificially loaded pricing they cannot trick you with. So it wasn't the same product just a better one at a substantially reduced cost! So you have either been victim to a mental designer or you have found a company that truly offers fab value.I firmly believe that high street firms can be competitive, and will do my best to support local firms, but if you try to treat your customer as a cash cow then you can't expect people not to shop around.
But I would put you on the spot by asking did you value the design work the designer did for you, did you use it when buying over the internet, would you ever have approached an internet seller without that knowledge, and would you expect the same design service from an internet based supplier?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 1st November 12:31
aka_kerrly said:
Legend83 said:
I thought the writing was on the wall for Comet when a last minute diversion to its Luton store before holiday required me to pay £29.99 for an 8gb SD card for my SLR.
The same item can be bought from Amazon for £7.99.
But this is exactly the reason these stores need to exist.The same item can be bought from Amazon for £7.99.
£29.99 a small price to pay to have 8gb of photos of your holiday. Had the Comet not been there you would be £29.99 better off but relying on your own memory.... Next you will complain that sun tan lotion costs more at the airport than it does it the £1 shop...
Amazon/online retailers have there place which is when you have the time to research, compare and don't need the item immediately. We still require high street stores for those 'need it now' moments!!
That said, if Comet do go pear shaped I could do with a new laptop!
Shame about Comet, I always liked them. To be honest things like shoes, clothes, bikes and televisions are probably the only things I would actually go to a shop to buy. You need to have a play with the TV and look at the IQ. Then its so much easier to have it bought there and then and get it in the back of your car to go home and play. I don't think I would buy a TV online, I can see the hassle of it now when the delivery guy turns up when I am not at home.
Still places like that need to take a leaf out of say apple's book. In an Apple store all the products are there on the tables working. You can play, you can have demos, you can whack your iPod on to one of the docks and listen to your music to see how it sounds. Same with the headphones.
Me and the girlfriend went to Currys-PC World the other day looking for waterproof cameras. They had a selection of two and neither of them could be turned on to have a play. They were quite keenly priced so would have no qualms buying from them. But you couldn't use the camera to see how it handles or behaves (how responsive are the buttons, what is the shutter lag like?). Asked for assisstance and some one came over. While they did try to get us a demo they fannied on for 10 minutes looking in various cupboards for the battery. Then went looking for tools to remove the plastic stool the camera was displayed on. This was so the battery could be put in I was told. If she'd actually looked, or knew the product, she would have known the battery went in on the side and you didn't need to remove it from its display stand. Wouldn't listen and then we just said its ok, thanks, but no thanks. She hadn't found the battery anyway.
Dont get me started on the horse s
t they spout for computers or TV's. I never call them out on it because I am too polite, but I hate standing there while some guy regals me with stuff that is wrong.In fairness PC-World are generally not bad on the demo side of things, but it doesnt seem to be shop wide. I.e. you can go play with the TV's and if you can get someone to come put a password in a computer you can have go with them too, but cameras etc might as well be plastic dummies because you can't use them.
Jessops are guilty of this too. Some stores are great, you can have a go with cameras and see what you like. Others like the one here, everything is locked away you can't even hold them. I know why they do it, it is so a shop assistant can come and capture you but I absolutely loath that. I don't need my hand holding, I will ask for help as and when.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Me and the girlfriend went to Currys-PC World the other day looking for waterproof cameras. They had a selection of two and neither of them could be turned on to have a play. They were quite keenly priced so would have no qualms buying from them. But you couldn't use the camera to see how it handles or behaves (how responsive are the buttons, what is the shutter lag like?). Asked for assisstance and some one came over. While they did try to get us a demo they fannied on for 10 minutes looking in various cupboards for the battery. Then went looking for tools to remove the plastic stool the camera was displayed on. This was so the battery could be put in I was told. If she'd actually looked, or knew the product, she would have known the battery went in on the side and you didn't need to remove it from its display stand. Wouldn't listen and then we just said its ok, thanks, but no thanks. She hadn't found the battery anyway.
I tried to buy a laptop from Currys/PC World - none of the Currys staff would assist because they aren't trained, and the one PC World guy was busy trying to flog Norton + Office + extra warranty +++++ to an old couple. The ONE advantage the stores have is the ability to let you try things and to serve you well. As we are seeing, they overlook that at their peril.
Which retailer combines keen pricing with excellent staff and service? John Lewis.
essayer said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That was me, and just for the record, the cabinets I received from the online seller were actually much better quality than the ones I was shown in store.. so I saved SIX THOUSAND POUNDS and got a better kitchen.anonymous said:
[redacted]
[O/T kitchen discussion]My kitchen is quite a simple galley layout so all I really got from any designer was a drawing of how it could look. The overall layout was pretty much self-determining so having a creative design wasn't really necessary. Although yes I got a nice 3D rendered drawing it was not to scale and did not mention cabinet sizes etc etc.
I still had to put the hours in to measure, sketch and plan everything myself, I did not find it as easy as I thought and of course if you get it wrong then there is no comeback ! And you have a lot more hassle finding someone to fit over allowing a company to manage the whole thing.
The town's only independent kitchen specialist quoted me in excess of £30k to fully supply and fit a ~2x4m kitchen with solid wood worktops, high end factory-made cabinets and mid-range appliances, so maybe we are just in an area where people don't shop around.
[That said, if I had a bigger kitchen with corners, islands etc I would definitely value paying £500 for someone to spend a day or two designing the whole thing - I did not research if there are people out that that will do that, the kitchen specialist was VERY sniffy about us supplying anything ourselves except appliances]
Halmyre said:
But did they get paid for the design work?
No, they didn't. They offered it for free as part of their estimate, which was significantly higher than what I considered reasonable and so I decided not to give them my business.Anyway back to Comet, it's pretty simple:
Whatever barriers exist for Internet shopping are gradually falling..
- you can shop anywhere on a mobile phone
- you can now get things delivered to a local shop instead of waiting at home
- any trust issues with credit cards online pretty much a distant memory
- Paypal and eBay etc widely understood and used
You have to differentiate on something else; service and trust are probably the most important; hence why people still use local bike shops and John Lewis!
Edited by essayer on Thursday 1st November 12:58
Their pricing seems good on TVs as well (perhaps part of the problem). I did the normal thing of looking at the TV in the shop before going online and noticed it was the same price as online. So found a member of staff and carried it out of the shop there and then. I don’t remember being pestered to buy any warrant cover either. Much better than buying on line.
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