Nothing about HSBC, the job cuts and possibly leaving?
Discussion
FredClogs said:
It's not a British company the clue is in the name "Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation" but that's largely irrelevant.
They launder for drug cartels, the bank of choice for despot's spoils and support deforestation via there ties with the largest timber conglomerates in the world. They close peoples accounts for supporting Palestinian charities and rip off their customers and refuse people like me access to our own cash, their employee's committed mass cooperate fraud by colluding to rig lending rates and fx rates and they invested $1billion with Bernie Madoff.
I don't think it's a great loss, do you?
Obviously not, but unfortunately we will need to now reduce spending in the welfare sector, someone is going to take the hit... who would you prefer?They launder for drug cartels, the bank of choice for despot's spoils and support deforestation via there ties with the largest timber conglomerates in the world. They close peoples accounts for supporting Palestinian charities and rip off their customers and refuse people like me access to our own cash, their employee's committed mass cooperate fraud by colluding to rig lending rates and fx rates and they invested $1billion with Bernie Madoff.
I don't think it's a great loss, do you?
Or do you have a magic money tree that can replace the lost income to the UK that the UK will now lose?
Du1point8 said:
Obviously not, but unfortunately we will need to now reduce spending in the welfare sector, someone is going to take the hit... who would you prefer?
Or do you have a magic money tree that can replace the lost income to the UK that the UK will now lose?
It's OK, he'll invest in the co-op bank inste....Or do you have a magic money tree that can replace the lost income to the UK that the UK will now lose?
Oh.
AC43 said:
After costs the return on equity is wobbling about at round the 7.5% - 8% mark. The industry norm is 10%+. The board are rightly getting beaten up about this by their major investors who will take their money somewhere else if this problem doesn't get fixed. Therefore they look to sell/close down loss-making parts of the business.
Du1point8 said:
FredClogs said:
It's not a British company the clue is in the name "Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation" but that's largely irrelevant.
They launder for drug cartels, the bank of choice for despot's spoils and support deforestation via there ties with the largest timber conglomerates in the world. They close peoples accounts for supporting Palestinian charities and rip off their customers and refuse people like me access to our own cash, their employee's committed mass cooperate fraud by colluding to rig lending rates and fx rates and they invested $1billion with Bernie Madoff.
I don't think it's a great loss, do you?
Obviously not, but unfortunately we will need to now reduce spending in the welfare sector, someone is going to take the hit... who would you prefer?They launder for drug cartels, the bank of choice for despot's spoils and support deforestation via there ties with the largest timber conglomerates in the world. They close peoples accounts for supporting Palestinian charities and rip off their customers and refuse people like me access to our own cash, their employee's committed mass cooperate fraud by colluding to rig lending rates and fx rates and they invested $1billion with Bernie Madoff.
I don't think it's a great loss, do you?
Or do you have a magic money tree that can replace the lost income to the UK that the UK will now lose?
Snozzwangler said:
Do you have a pension?
Was that a question for me?Yes and No, I mean I have a pension but it won't keep me in tea bags I doubt.
You're not going to try to excuse unethical, criminal and deeply unsatisfying corporate behaviour and a subtle means of indentured slavery based on some pipe dream of security in my old age are you?
f
k, you people really are deluded. FredClogs said:
Snozzwangler said:
Do you have a pension?
Was that a question for me?Yes and No, I mean I have a pension but it won't keep me in tea bags I doubt.
You're not going to try to excuse unethical, criminal and deeply unsatisfying corporate behaviour and a subtle means of indentured slavery based on some pipe dream of security in my old age are you?
f
k, you people really are deluded. You seem to want rid of the banks, OK, but you don't want to suggest a solution for the financing hole left behind.
Hating is easy, let's have a stretch and look for a solution.
Snozzwangler said:
FredClogs said:
Snozzwangler said:
Do you have a pension?
Was that a question for me?Yes and No, I mean I have a pension but it won't keep me in tea bags I doubt.
You're not going to try to excuse unethical, criminal and deeply unsatisfying corporate behaviour and a subtle means of indentured slavery based on some pipe dream of security in my old age are you?
f
k, you people really are deluded. You seem to want rid of the banks, OK, but you don't want to suggest a solution for the financing hole left behind.
Hating is easy, let's have a stretch and look for a solution.
"Sir Mervyn King wants "a real change in the culture of the [banking] industry. He's an optimist, I'll give him that.There are (at least) three big obstacles to such a change:
1. Bankers tend (with exceptions) to be selected for a money-chasing amorality. Most jobs in the sector are pretty dull - I'm surprised I stuck there for eight years - and "socially useless". The sort of people attracted to them are likely to be disproportionately motivated by hard cash.
2.The mere salience of money tends to make people more selfish (pdf) and more likely to cheat. It's difficult to see how the salience of money in banking can be reduced.
3. Organizations and societies tend to display path dependence - they rarely change radically for the better quickly. To paraphrase Max Planck, culture advances one funeral at a time.
Now, I don't say this to deny the possibility that "strong leadership" might change banks' culture for the better - but it'll be a long haul.
But herein lies a problem. Talk of "culture" isn't just waffle.The trouble with banks is that they are riddled with principal-agency problems. Shareholders and regulators have only imperfect control over CEOs, CEOs have only imperfect oversight of senior managers, and senior managers have limited control over their underlings, and so on.
Now, many organizations have such problems. And in many of them, the solution lies in culture. For example, cultures of professional pride, reciprocal altruism or a work ethic ensure that workers do a good job even if they are not closely supervised. As - ahem - Bob Diamond said "the evidence of culture is how people behave when no-one is watching."
In banking, however, the culture that helps solve agency problems is lacking.
So, how to create it, given the obstacles I've described?
We could learn from pre-modern states. They imposed brutal punishments upon wrong-doers, in part because they needed to terrorize their subjects into submission simply because they had no other means of controlling them. Similarly, if shareholders or regulators cannot control bankers - and it looks like they can't, draconian punishments for wrongdoing are needed to keep them in line. As Voltaire nearly said, "it is wise to kill a banker from time to time to encourage the others."
Of course, such a policy has drawbacks. But the point is that radical change in the face of large barriers to change requires radical action.
http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_...
Flip Martian said:
AC43 said:
After costs the return on equity is wobbling about at round the 7.5% - 8% mark. The industry norm is 10%+. The board are rightly getting beaten up about this by their major investors who will take their money somewhere else if this problem doesn't get fixed. Therefore they look to sell/close down loss-making parts of the business.
I should start off by admitting I did 4.5 years in HSBC investment bank in the back office. (I am a reg analyst). 7000 jobs if they all happened at 8 Canada Sq would be noticible if across the whole firm then no not even going to make a dent. Currently and in 2014 HSBC dominated the recruitment market in the city. So it maybe a whole load of.contractors being cut again no one will notice. When I was in the IBank there we worked hard long hours etc the pay was good but not millions. When I left (due to ill health) I came back 6 months later to a different area not the ibaNK and the difference was huge many more management levels less flexible staff frankly less skilled staff etc they still worked long hours but much more to be seen. That part of the bank could loose 20% of the staff no problem (those left would moan etc but who cares be grateful you have a job). What struck me an still does when I occasionally work at a non investment bank is the sudden fall in skill set. People want to demonise bankers (traders) but they made the money. RBS and LTSB both failed due to there collapsing banking books same with northern rock. There trading books were well hedged same with HSBC same with barcap. So what debts for those who don't know are held on the banking book....retail loans mortgages, car loans, loans for household stuff and credit cards an overdrafts. So next question for the hard of thinking which of those products do traders get involved with....answer none. The retail banks ran up the debts on the mortgage portfolios these were funded via relaxed reg rules that allowed for packaged (securitisations) debt so Joe average could get a mortgage and a 3 series. Traders were involved via packaging an reselling the debt sure. However if Joe public repaid there loans and did not use more an more credit the crash might have not happen. Banks were like drug pushers with credit and Joe public were the junkies...like a junkie they all have a reason it's not there fault etc.
So anyway 7000 jobs go next week many will be re hired for HSBC which makes most cash overseas and From I banking uk retail is a cost I am sure it would be happy to.shake and if it means less useless staff in head office who can't even do a pivot table or get a balance sheet to balance the so be it no loss.
So anyway 7000 jobs go next week many will be re hired for HSBC which makes most cash overseas and From I banking uk retail is a cost I am sure it would be happy to.shake and if it means less useless staff in head office who can't even do a pivot table or get a balance sheet to balance the so be it no loss.
Du1point8 said:
Just talked with my contacts in HSBC, most of the 8000 scum that are going are the cashiers, clerks, etc.
Don't forget to point and laugh as they go home with the million £ pensions and compromise agreements.
I'm not sure what your point is. If you're right the accounts that they service will go to other UK retail banks, won't they? Who will either need to significantly improve productivity or recruit more staff, which wouldn't be too difficult in the circumstances.Don't forget to point and laugh as they go home with the million £ pensions and compromise agreements.
Whatever happens, there's only 1 place to lay the blame and it's not the UK government. If this 'plan' makes financial sense not then it would have been equally sound without the regulatory on-cost and it would have been implemented regardless.
I think it's far more likely that this action is because they're simply having to operate in a legal, moral way and of course the fact that they're haemorrhaging retail customers.
In any case, the numbers concerned are by no means the largest job losses attributable to a single business, in recent years and currently. I trust that your concern for them matches your concern for HSBC?
REALIST123 said:
Du1point8 said:
Just talked with my contacts in HSBC, most of the 8000 scum that are going are the cashiers, clerks, etc.
Don't forget to point and laugh as they go home with the million £ pensions and compromise agreements.
I'm not sure what your point is. If you're right the accounts that they service will go to other UK retail banks, won't they? Who will either need to significantly improve productivity or recruit more staff, which wouldn't be too difficult in the circumstances.Don't forget to point and laugh as they go home with the million £ pensions and compromise agreements.
Whatever happens, there's only 1 place to lay the blame and it's not the UK government. If this 'plan' makes financial sense not then it would have been equally sound without the regulatory on-cost and it would have been implemented regardless.
I think it's far more likely that this action is because they're simply having to operate in a legal, moral way and of course the fact that they're haemorrhaging retail customers.
In any case, the numbers concerned are by no means the largest job losses attributable to a single business, in recent years and currently. I trust that your concern for them matches your concern for HSBC?
Oh an I know people who got made redundant in the city, its not uncoomon for firms to be total
s and pay statutory rates which is like £250 max for each full year you worked there and I think its capped at 25weeks.the days of 3 years salary and keeping your company car as a £1 gift are long gone. All firms treat you like dirt now.
Gecko1978 said:
I think / hope dupont is making light. Though if it is cashiers etc this will be in line with reducing bank staff anyway go to most brnaches now an counter service is not an option you have to use the machines (RBS still offer counter service for all). I have found it odd that you withdraw a service from the low income customers who benefit from it most i.e. face to face explinations an service, untill I think like a banker / Corp and draw the conculsion that low income retial customers are not profitable so why offer them more. Sad but true really. Its one of the few things I think should be in law face to face access for all etc. Its much easier to talk to a person about debt managment than a voice on a phone 1000's of miles away.
Oh an I know people who got made redundant in the city, its not uncoomon for firms to be totals and pay statutory rates which is like £250 max for each full year you worked there and I think its capped at 25weeks.
the days of 3 years salary and keeping your company car as a £1 gift are long gone. All firms treat you like dirt now.
I'm not sure he is making light.Oh an I know people who got made redundant in the city, its not uncoomon for firms to be total
s and pay statutory rates which is like £250 max for each full year you worked there and I think its capped at 25weeks.the days of 3 years salary and keeping your company car as a £1 gift are long gone. All firms treat you like dirt now.
Btw statutory redundancy pay is up to 30 weeks at £475, £14250, tax free, but HSBC have said they'll do this by natural wastage, which should take less than three years so redundancy shouldn't enter into it.
Unless we are expecting HSBC to behave Immorally and s
t on people?All in all much less than meets the eye in this one, methinks.....
REALIST123 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I think / hope dupont is making light. Though if it is cashiers etc this will be in line with reducing bank staff anyway go to most brnaches now an counter service is not an option you have to use the machines (RBS still offer counter service for all). I have found it odd that you withdraw a service from the low income customers who benefit from it most i.e. face to face explinations an service, untill I think like a banker / Corp and draw the conculsion that low income retial customers are not profitable so why offer them more. Sad but true really. Its one of the few things I think should be in law face to face access for all etc. Its much easier to talk to a person about debt managment than a voice on a phone 1000's of miles away.
Oh an I know people who got made redundant in the city, its not uncoomon for firms to be totals and pay statutory rates which is like £250 max for each full year you worked there and I think its capped at 25weeks.
the days of 3 years salary and keeping your company car as a £1 gift are long gone. All firms treat you like dirt now.
I'm not sure he is making light.Oh an I know people who got made redundant in the city, its not uncoomon for firms to be total
s and pay statutory rates which is like £250 max for each full year you worked there and I think its capped at 25weeks.the days of 3 years salary and keeping your company car as a £1 gift are long gone. All firms treat you like dirt now.
Btw statutory redundancy pay is up to 30 weeks at £475, £14250, tax free, but HSBC have said they'll do this by natural wastage, which should take less than three years so redundancy shouldn't enter into it.
Unless we are expecting HSBC to behave Immorally and s
t on people?All in all much less than meets the eye in this one, methinks.....
Decent compromise agreements are not on the cards for many of the staff, yes for the long termers with early retirement, those other ones will get bugger all.
The departments that give decent compromise agreements are not the ones affected.
How do I know this, well lets just say I have worked Retail, Corporate and Investment whilst I was at HSBC for 9 years so I might know a thing or two and have several old friends still in each sector who I keep in touch with up to European/global heads of departments...
If you work retail and on the front line, you get no such decent payout as its a standard one.
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