Referenda are best way to make important decisions usually
Discussion
citizensm1th said:
seriously though it would be fascinating to see how adaptive learning AI would deal with subjects with out human baggage.
I am not sure the majority of humans would like the resulting choices
You not seen terminator? If skynet was real I wouldn't be surprised if it came to a very similar conclusion. Unsubstantial population growth, with limited depleting resources, an almost statistical certainty with the existence of nuke's they one day will be used. I am not sure the majority of humans would like the resulting choices
If you gave it the task of keep the human race alive the first thing it would probably do is wipe out 90% of us.
El stovey said:
No I mean a supermajority, many countries have required supermajorities of up to 70% to push through major constitutional change. I think it’s required to have an effective mandate when important stuff like leaving the EU is being debated.
Still banging that old drum?You're beginning to sound like /// rapidly.
KrissKross said:
Efbe said:
Referendums are the worst things that can ever enter poilitics.
Could I ask though, what happens when the people you vote for don't actually do the things they said they would, hence why you voted for them but now you feel shat on.I do not know the facts my prime minister knows, I do not know the steps of logic that have been taken to get to that point, I do know however that they will make decisions they think are right.
Without being arrogant; I am affluent, intelligent and knowledgeable. I know this, yet I am also humble enough to know that I cannot make the correct decision for a country.
50% of people are more stupid than the average. 50% are less well read than the average. I want a decision made by people who are more intelligent and better informed than the majority.
Anyone who's done a politics GCSE or degree module will know referenda are the purest form of direct democracy. But it's very difficult to execute in practice -- emotions always overrule rational debate. Switzerland, with a small, educated, calm population, is the only country in the world to have managed it (fairly) successfully.
Regarding Heathrow -- just build the extra runway already. No referendum needed. It's the only proper international airport in Britain and has a good location. Gatwick is truly awful (too spread-out) and tucked away in the asscrack of England, too far from ~75% of the population. The best location for a bigger airport would really be Luton, roughly in the middle between 5 of Britain's 6 major economic centres -- but nobody with money (who make decisions) wants to go there and West London is much more preferable.
Regarding Heathrow -- just build the extra runway already. No referendum needed. It's the only proper international airport in Britain and has a good location. Gatwick is truly awful (too spread-out) and tucked away in the asscrack of England, too far from ~75% of the population. The best location for a bigger airport would really be Luton, roughly in the middle between 5 of Britain's 6 major economic centres -- but nobody with money (who make decisions) wants to go there and West London is much more preferable.
Funkycoldribena said:
El stovey said:
No I mean a supermajority, many countries have required supermajorities of up to 70% to push through major constitutional change. I think it’s required to have an effective mandate when important stuff like leaving the EU is being debated.
Still banging that old drum?You're beginning to sound like /// rapidly.
Makes a change you being allowed to post on a thread though.
Not-The-Messiah said:
Lord Marylebone said:
We've all met 'the general public'.
We've read their opinions and comments on social media, we've worked in the same office as them, we've overheard their opinions in pubs, we've heard them discussing current affairs whilst in the supermarket queue, we've watched their interview in the street on the news.
Would I trust them to fully understand and consider the complex issues and potential consequences of a referendum question?
Absolutely not.
We've read their opinions and comments on social media, we've worked in the same office as them, we've overheard their opinions in pubs, we've heard them discussing current affairs whilst in the supermarket queue, we've watched their interview in the street on the news.
Would I trust them to fully understand and consider the complex issues and potential consequences of a referendum question?
Absolutely not.
No but they can swing a bat just as hard as everyone else and untimely if the so call educated elites continue to ignore them and think they know best. Even after the people can see with their own eyes what messes they get us into. Untimely the bats will eventually come out.
There will always be the odd demonstration, march, protest or strike, but ultimately the vast majority of the population simply cannot be bothered to do anything else apart from moan when they disagree with what politicians are doing.
There is also no reason why anyone cannot get into politics themselves if they feel they want to change things and convince others of their ideas.
Government isn't there to make popular decsisions and keep people happy, they are there to run a country. I will full admit that at times, they do a poor job of it, but what's the alternative? As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, if you went mad and just let the 'general public' decide everything in totally free referendums they would probably vote for no taxes, free council houses, petrol at 10p per litre and 15 weeks per year paid holiday.
Lord Marylebone said:
I don't think it will ever come to that.
There will always be the odd demonstration, march, protest or strike, but ultimately the vast majority of the population simply cannot be bothered to do anything else apart from moan when they disagree with what politicians are doing.
.
Remember the poll tax?There will always be the odd demonstration, march, protest or strike, but ultimately the vast majority of the population simply cannot be bothered to do anything else apart from moan when they disagree with what politicians are doing.
.
Funkycoldribena said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I don't think it will ever come to that.
There will always be the odd demonstration, march, protest or strike, but ultimately the vast majority of the population simply cannot be bothered to do anything else apart from moan when they disagree with what politicians are doing.
.
Remember the poll tax?There will always be the odd demonstration, march, protest or strike, but ultimately the vast majority of the population simply cannot be bothered to do anything else apart from moan when they disagree with what politicians are doing.
.
But I am well aware of what went on from reading up on the subject over the years. As I said, there will always be demonstrations and protests about minor things such as poll tax, but that's about as far as it will go. We aren't talking about parliament being burned to the ground and a revolution.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.
It's always the way though. The better off get shafted. They want less and take less from society, and usually end up paying more at the same time.
Take myself as an example. I was privately educated so I didn't use up any school places from the local authority, I paid for my own higher education, I've got private healthcare and dental care so I'm not a drain on the NHS, I don't require housing or money towards housing, I have never claimed any benefits, and I have never required interaction with the police. I have taken very little from the state.
Yet for all this, I am presented with, and pay, an income tax bill and a council tax bill, that I suspect is higher than the average.
Lord Marylebone said:
Not really because I was 8 at the time.
But I am well aware of what went on from reading up on the subject over the years. As I said, there will always be demonstrations and protests about minor things such as poll tax, but that's about as far as it will go. We aren't talking about parliament being burned to the ground and a revolution.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.
It's always the way though. The better off get shafted. They want less and take less from society, and usually end up paying more at the same time.
Take myself as an example. I was privately educated so I didn't use up any school places from the local authority, I paid for my own higher education, I've got private healthcare and dental care so I'm not a drain on the NHS, I don't require housing or money towards housing, I have never claimed any benefits, and I have never required interaction with the police. I have taken very little from the state.
Yet for all this, I am presented with, and pay, an income tax bill and a council tax bill, that I suspect is higher than the average.
Well the poll tax "protests" and demonstrations were actually riots and as to healthcare that's your choice to pay it,its free in this country (sort of).But I am well aware of what went on from reading up on the subject over the years. As I said, there will always be demonstrations and protests about minor things such as poll tax, but that's about as far as it will go. We aren't talking about parliament being burned to the ground and a revolution.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.
It's always the way though. The better off get shafted. They want less and take less from society, and usually end up paying more at the same time.
Take myself as an example. I was privately educated so I didn't use up any school places from the local authority, I paid for my own higher education, I've got private healthcare and dental care so I'm not a drain on the NHS, I don't require housing or money towards housing, I have never claimed any benefits, and I have never required interaction with the police. I have taken very little from the state.
Yet for all this, I am presented with, and pay, an income tax bill and a council tax bill, that I suspect is higher than the average.
I can't remember the in and outs of the poll tax but remember it was a ridiculous amount when I was on pennies back then.
Lord Marylebone said:
For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.
Agreed.Lord Marylebone said:
Not really because I was 8 at the time.
But I am well aware of what went on from reading up on the subject over the years. As I said, there will always be demonstrations and protests about minor things such as poll tax, but that's about as far as it will go. We aren't talking about parliament being burned to the ground and a revolution.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.
It's always the way though. The better off get shafted. They want less and take less from society, and usually end up paying more at the same time.
Take myself as an example. I was privately educated so I didn't use up any school places from the local authority, I paid for my own higher education, I've got private healthcare and dental care so I'm not a drain on the NHS, I don't require housing or money towards housing, I have never claimed any benefits, and I have never required interaction with the police. I have taken very little from the state.
Yet for all this, I am presented with, and pay, an income tax bill and a council tax bill, that I suspect is higher than the average.
As much as I agree with you on the merits of the Poll Tax (far "fairer", but since when did "fair" ever really come into taxation), those "minor" protests were full on running riots that brought about the fall of the Poll Tax pretty sharpish (unfortunately).But I am well aware of what went on from reading up on the subject over the years. As I said, there will always be demonstrations and protests about minor things such as poll tax, but that's about as far as it will go. We aren't talking about parliament being burned to the ground and a revolution.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.
It's always the way though. The better off get shafted. They want less and take less from society, and usually end up paying more at the same time.
Take myself as an example. I was privately educated so I didn't use up any school places from the local authority, I paid for my own higher education, I've got private healthcare and dental care so I'm not a drain on the NHS, I don't require housing or money towards housing, I have never claimed any benefits, and I have never required interaction with the police. I have taken very little from the state.
Yet for all this, I am presented with, and pay, an income tax bill and a council tax bill, that I suspect is higher than the average.
LittleBigPlanet said:
powerstroke said:
One on Hs2 would be nice !! question do we need a pointless vanity project ??
or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
HS2 is as much about developing new infrastructure as it is about increasing capacity on other lines. It will contribute to your first point regardless. or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
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