Homeowner arrested for stabbing burglar

[bitchstewie]

Oakey said:

bhstewie said:

Let's wait and see.

Kenneth Noye was a harmless old man surprised by a burglar in his back garden IIRC.

At face value it's routine and he'll be let go.

Kenny Noye was 38 when he stabbed John Fordham.

Fair point, but the point is there's a reason the Police have to follow a process and it's things like that that highlight why they do it that way.

[Not-The-Messiah]

stitched said:

Anyone entering my house without invitation will be considered a rapist paedophile with murderous intentions.
I would rather do time than live knowing I had failed to protect my family.
Just wish the law reflected this, hopefully he will be released without charge but after the Tony Martin farce I wont be holding my breath.

With law the way it's going you will end up getting arrested for shouting at them and calling them names never mind smashing them over the head with a baseball bat. You don't want to offend them.

[Oakey]

bhstewie said:

Fair point, but the point is there's a reason the Police have to follow a process and it's things like that that highlight why they do it that way.

I agree. Arran Coghlan shot a man in his home and walked so I don't see why this guy wouldn't unless there's something more to it that hasn't been disclosed;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-38...

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2017-02-23/...

[Pesty]

we should have a castle law like they do in the states.

i absolutely abhor thieves. they break in you should assume they intend to mean you harm.

[ukaskew]

pgh said:

Deal with your property being burgled while you are in residence. Then arrested, swabbed for DNA and fingerprinted. Forever more having to declare that you have been arrested when looking to travel to the US or Canada amongst others. Finally, having to live with having ended the life of another human.

Quite a day for the poor chap.

My mind always jumps to these practical implications. Even if he's released without charge could it potentially cause issues (maybe more relevant to a younger person looking for a job or travelling more etc) in the future for him?

[Tom Logan]

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

[pc.iow]

As much as I know it would get me in for a long spell,
What the fk is wrong in saying you were in fear for your life, he was threatening you with a weapon in your own house. The place you should feel safe, It made you so fking angry you stabbed the mutherfker right in the heart!

[FiF]

So an old boy surprises two burglars, one of them armed with a screwdriver, is then forced into his kitchen, a struggle ensues viz bruises on old guys arms, one burglar flees, one found collapsed on floor with a single stab wound, later dies in hospital, police unable to confirm if he was stabbed with the assailant's screwdriver.

If that account accurately reflects matters the old guy has little to worry about longer term, though the incident and the subsequent dealings with the police will have been traumatic. Little option but to remove him from scene to allow SOCO to gather evidence and, hopefully, confirm old guy's story.

Give him a medal, and a cheque, free shopping in his local supermarket for a year, never have to buy another drink when he goes to the Legion for a game of dominoes.

[oyster]

One of these topics that brings out the outliers in society.

How on earth can you want to live in one of the world's most free countries, with globally-respected and stable laws, yet want the law of the land to stop at your front door?


If it turns out that he killed the burglar in self defence then he's a hero. If he did it out of vengeance then he's a thug who deserves punishment. The location of the crime makes no difference.

[Gameface]

bhstewie said:

Let's wait and see.

Kenneth Noye was a harmless old man surprised by a burglar in his back garden IIRC.

At face value it's routine and he'll be let go.

Kenny was in his 30's when that happened.

ETA:- I see that's already been dealt with.

[bitchstewie]

Gameface said:

bhstewie said:

Let's wait and see.

Kenneth Noye was a harmless old man surprised by a burglar in his back garden IIRC.

At face value it's routine and he'll be let go.

Kenny was in his 30's when that happened.

Yes my mistake, but should he have been given a blanket and a mug of cocoa and told "it's fine" when the Police arrived though, or is that simply an age thing?

[Pesty]

oyster said:

One of these topics that brings out the outliers in society.

How on earth can you want to live in one of the world's most free countries, with globally-respected and stable laws, yet want the law of the land to stop at your front door?


If it turns out that he killed the burglar in self defence then he's a hero. If he did it out of vengeance then he's a thug who deserves punishment. The location of the crime makes no difference.

nobody has said laws shouldnt apply.

not like we are saying you should be able to murder your wife. but yes if some scumbag breaks in then tough st.

the police will have to determine that the 'victim ' was unknown to the home owner but want to bet these guys had long wrap sheets and were known to te police?

[Wobbegong]

Good riddance. It means society has one less scrote, and another plus point is we don’t have to fund his prison housing.

If it’s as reported, I hope the police are sensible and don’t try to make an example of the homeowner.

[oyster]

Pesty said:

oyster said:

One of these topics that brings out the outliers in society.

How on earth can you want to live in one of the world's most free countries, with globally-respected and stable laws, yet want the law of the land to stop at your front door?


If it turns out that he killed the burglar in self defence then he's a hero. If he did it out of vengeance then he's a thug who deserves punishment. The location of the crime makes no difference.

nobody has said laws shouldnt apply.

not like we are saying you should be able to murder your wife. but yes if some scumbag breaks in then tough st.

the police will have to determine that the 'victim ' was unknown to the home owner but want to bet these guys had long wrap sheets and were known to te police?

Which is it? Laws still apply or tough st?
You can't have both.

[ikarl]

Pesty said:

we should have a castle law like they do in the states.

i absolutely abhor thieves. they break in you should assume they intend to mean you harm.

The problem with that is if the thief then expects to be fighting for their life if they come into contact with anyone in the house, they'll then come suitably armed for such an instance.

If they do then come into contact with someone in the house, instead of running (and risk being chased, stabbed, shot in the back etc.) would they attack?

[TooMany2cvs]

WinstonWolf said:

bks, TM had been burgled repeatedly and lived in a remote location.

Hardly that remote - 20 miles from Peterborough, 12 miles from Kings Lynn, 4 miles from Wisbech, 2 miles from the A47.

But it's all completely irrelevant - living in a rural location does not give some kind of licence to kill.

WinstonWolf said:

You're completely wrong about the background to the case.

No, what I said are simple and undeniable facts.

I didn't even mention how he's been arrested since his release, on another illegal firearms charge, or how the chair of the parole board described him as dangerous while refusing him parole. Martin is no hero.

[Dogwatch]

TooMany2cvs said:

Remember Tony Martin? What people who hold him up as some kind of hero conveniently forget is that the scrote was shot in the back with an illegally-held gun, fired multiple times, while running away, by somebody who'd already had his licence taken away after shooting at somebody scrumping apples - not that a shotgun licence would have covered that pump-action shotgun anyway.

Yes, I remember the TM case. Pitch dark,no lights, in the middle of nowhere, but the official line at the time was always that any intruder was a police matter and the householder should just let them get on with it. Woe betide anyone who resisted, the intruder had human rights too y'know!

Whatever the rights and wrongs of that case it did start a sea-change in the official thinking on defending your property and Tone even promised to amend the law on self defence!
He didn't (of course) but since then many burgled householders have had reason to be grateful to TM for being seen as the victims they were not the assailants.
/rant

[WinstonWolf]

TooMany2cvs said:

WinstonWolf said:

bks, TM had been burgled repeatedly and lived in a remote location.

Hardly that remote - 20 miles from Peterborough, 12 miles from Kings Lynn, 4 miles from Wisbech, 2 miles from the A47.

But it's all completely irrelevant - living in a rural location does not give some kind of licence to kill.

WinstonWolf said:

You're completely wrong about the background to the case.

No, what I said are simple and undeniable facts.

I didn't even mention how he's been arrested since his release, on another illegal firearms charge, or how the chair of the parole board described him as dangerous while refusing him parole. Martin is no hero.

And about an hour from a police response. I take it you've never been out that way? It's actually the arse end of nowhere. If you understood anything about rural crime you'd know how the situation arose. But you obviously don't...

[Rovinghawk]

oyster said:

If it turns out that he killed the burglar in self defence then he's a hero. If he did it out of vengeance then he's a thug who deserves punishment. The location of the crime makes no difference.

It was in his home at 1245 am- I see it that the burglar was looking for trouble, not the old boy. Under the circumstances I feel he should have the right to use whatever force he saw fit.

Based on that, the location makes a huge difference.

[anonymous-user]

Tony Martin didn't go round burgling houses did he?

He was clearly wrong in law to deal with that burglar as he did and wasn't fit and proper to have guns. Also, I have no doubt that Probation Officer's belief that TM might react with excessive force if he encountered burglars again was wholly correct.

But a basic fact of the matter remains that if Barras (who had 29 convictions by the age of 16 and was out on bail at the time of the incident) had been safely tucked up in bed instead of breaking into TM's house, he wouldn't have been shot by TM.