Poor MPs being bullied outside parliament
Discussion
TTwiggy said:
irocfan said:
AIUI the Nazi thing is a sideshow - these animals were advocating she should be sexually assaulted
Indeed - which often seems to be the standard 'go to' whenever the object of ire is female. It's a sad indictment of the mindset of some people.coldel said:
I think we need to set aside our own views of politicans, or Soubry herself. Would you accept someone coming up to you as you go about your business and verbally abusing you? If it was repeated and vile/offensive? Freedom of speech is not the same as being free to say whatever you like and there are laws around it. The 'verbal abuse' of MPs can be done effectively without personal insults i.e. opposing their point of view, its the personally vile stuff which can turn into jostling and physical confrontation which needs to be addressed (which is called out specifically in the complaint) that needs addressing in my view.
set aside our view on our politicians? - what the two faced, lying, self-serving, self righteous and cost fiddling bunch of hypocrites that ever existed? bit hard to do that.
People may take offence at anything but Ive watched both videos and the Nazi calling is from a distance from protesters when she was interviewd on TV. and the other is a bunch of people following her challenging her views with one saying she is a fascist. No swearing no threats nothing sexual.- Hardly vile. imho.
Insulting someone or calling out someone is that really a criminal offence? There was no physical confrontation or jostling just some robust views made to her which for an MP they have to accept when they fek around with peoples lives whilst cocooned in their own gold bubble.
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 8th January 11:57
superlightr said:
coldel said:
I think we need to set aside our own views of politicans, or Soubry herself. Would you accept someone coming up to you as you go about your business and verbally abusing you? If it was repeated and vile/offensive? Freedom of speech is not the same as being free to say whatever you like and there are laws around it. The 'verbal abuse' of MPs can be done effectively without personal insults i.e. opposing their point of view, its the personally vile stuff which can turn into jostling and physical confrontation which needs to be addressed (which is called out specifically in the complaint) that needs addressing in my view.
set aside our view on our politicians? - what the two faced, lying, self-serving, self righteous and cost fiddling bunch of hypocrites that ever existed? bit hard to do that.
People may take offence at anything but Ive watched both videos and the Nazi calling is from a distance from protesters when she was interviewd on TV. and the other is a bunch of people following her challenging her views with one saying she is a fascist. No swearing no threats nothing sexual.- Hardly vile. imho.
Insulting someone or calling out someone is that really a criminal offence? There was no physical confrontation or jostling just some robust views made to her which for an MP they have to accept when they fek around with peoples lives whilst cocooned in their own gold bubble.
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 8th January 11:57
I saw on social media the other day the absolute outrage at the Palace goalkeeper caught doing what looks like a nazi salute, people were in a frenzy saying how terrible it was, yet here we have a perception that its OK if its done at a person due to a view of their job.
There was a recent incident when Mogg was subjected to this sort of harrassment outside of his home/office which included some particularly nasty intimidation directed towards his children.
He handled it with some grace it must be said and there was no mention of involving the police.
AS would do well to stop playing the victim and rise above it.
He handled it with some grace it must be said and there was no mention of involving the police.
AS would do well to stop playing the victim and rise above it.
CoolHands said:
haven't read all the thread so apols if missed, but is it a criminal offence to call someone a nazi? 
I didn't think it was
I didn't think so to, any sensible person knows it's just a meaningless insult. I didn't think it wasIf I call someone a clown and they don't have a clown costume on or at home is that against the law to?
superlightr said:
oyster said:
I live not far from where it happened. The police turned up and were very heavy handed with the protesters (rightly so).
Yesterday, despite being opposite the Palace of Westminster with hundreds of Met around, they just let the harrassment continue. I don't like Anna Soubry at all, but to call anyone a Nazi is shameful and most likely illegal.
Anyone who thinks it ok to use such language plainly is too thick to even know what the word constitutes.
Harassment ??? They were being loud and shouty - non violent protesting even. Yesterday, despite being opposite the Palace of Westminster with hundreds of Met around, they just let the harrassment continue. I don't like Anna Soubry at all, but to call anyone a Nazi is shameful and most likely illegal.
Anyone who thinks it ok to use such language plainly is too thick to even know what the word constitutes.
is there a list of words on your proposed banned list of name calling ?
how about if they quietly whispered or held a placard?
Clearly there are public order offences but as you mentioned the hundreds of Met police did not think it passed that threshold.
We'll see if the Met stand by their inaction.
Not-The-Messiah said:
CoolHands said:
haven't read all the thread so apols if missed, but is it a criminal offence to call someone a nazi? I didn't think it was
I didn't think so to, any sensible person knows it's just a meaningless insult. I didn't think it wasIf I call someone a clown and they don't have a clown costume on or at home is that against the law to?
oyster said:
And as a result the Speaker has contacted the Met.
We'll see if the Met stand by their inaction.
but the public order offence is for action when its occurring now not for historic things. I fully understand what you are saying but disagree with the threshold being put forward as being worthy of a criminal offence and police involvement.We'll see if the Met stand by their inaction.
chrispmartha said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
CoolHands said:
haven't read all the thread so apols if missed, but is it a criminal offence to call someone a nazi? I didn't think it was
I didn't think so to, any sensible person knows it's just a meaningless insult. I didn't think it wasIf I call someone a clown and they don't have a clown costume on or at home is that against the law to?
or a "feking retard"
or whatever is shouted out aimed as being an insult?
taking offence is too easy and has been discussed here many times - you can offend someone and should be allowed to without it being a criminal offence.
superlightr said:
chrispmartha said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
CoolHands said:
haven't read all the thread so apols if missed, but is it a criminal offence to call someone a nazi? I didn't think it was
I didn't think so to, any sensible person knows it's just a meaningless insult. I didn't think it wasIf I call someone a clown and they don't have a clown costume on or at home is that against the law to?
or a "feking retard"
or whatever is shouted out aimed as being an insult?
alfie2244 said:
Andymak's post on the negotiation thread has nailed it for me.....................I would copy and post it on this thread but I am banned from that thread for agreeing when one of our fellow PH'rs (that only posts on Brexit related threads) was call a Q...ing. 
Haha, it appears I'm now banned for presumably making a joke about the discussions last night We'll start our own thread, with blackjack and hookers!
I wonder if it's less about the names and more to do with the fact that there are a lot of nutters out there and we've seen one MP already killed by one of them.
Robust debate is one thing, being harassed in the street and abused for simply doing your job is something else.
I think there's a point where we all need to step back a little and ask ourselves "Is this what we've become?".
Robust debate is one thing, being harassed in the street and abused for simply doing your job is something else.
I think there's a point where we all need to step back a little and ask ourselves "Is this what we've become?".
Lotobear said:
There was a recent incident when Mogg was subjected to this sort of harrassment outside of his home/office which included some particularly nasty intimidation directed towards his children.
He handled it with some grace it must be said and there was no mention of involving the police.
To be fair it must be pretty difficult to hear the protestors at the end of the garden(s), with the stables in the way, across the moat and behind the ha-ha.He handled it with some grace it must be said and there was no mention of involving the police.
chrispmartha said:
There's a difference in the protesters aswell - did they call Nigel garage a Nazi? Now don't get me wrong I don't think any MPs should be the target of abuse but did you see the protesters outside the pub Nigel Farage was in?
I will add if his children were scared and of they did damage his car then it is way out of order.
"The campaigners from the group called Ukip – Beyond Diversity, gathered in fancy dress and included migrants, HIV activists, gay people, disabled people and breastfeeding mothers"
I'm not sure what point you're making, that these people can't bet aggressive because they're in fancy dress? I recently saw a bargain bucket Johnny Depp-looking anti-fracker with dreadlocks wearing a pink onesie and a large top hat start becoming aggressive with a customer that was trying to enter the car park of the nearby garden centre because he'd had the audacity to ask him to move out the way of the entrance.I will add if his children were scared and of they did damage his car then it is way out of order.
"The campaigners from the group called Ukip – Beyond Diversity, gathered in fancy dress and included migrants, HIV activists, gay people, disabled people and breastfeeding mothers"
Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 8th January 13:09
amusingduck said:
alfie2244 said:
Andymak's post on the negotiation thread has nailed it for me.....................I would copy and post it on this thread but I am banned from that thread for agreeing when one of our fellow PH'rs (that only posts on Brexit related threads) was call a Q...ing.
Haha, it appears I'm now banned for presumably making a joke about the discussions last night We'll start our own thread, with blackjack and hookers!
Edited by alfie2244 on Tuesday 8th January 13:15
chrispmartha said:
They didn’t call ger a communist, clown or fecking retard though, they called her a Nazi. Why not just deal with actually what happened rather than engaging in whataboutism
It makes not difference that's the point, you can't just personally choose which is offensive or not. The only legal argument I could see is that it's libellous/ deformation. In which case the argument must be the person saying it must believe or trying to make others believe that the person in question is actually a Nazi, communist, clown or whatever.
Are you seriously saying that people will believe that Anne soubry is an actual Nazi? A national socialist who believes in superiority of a certain race and would be rounding people to commit genocide if given the chance? I know some idiots sort of believe it with people like Tommy Robinson, even Trump but come on.
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