Tesla choose Germany over UK for its first European plant.
Discussion
T-195 said:
Lannister902 said:
Brexit has been a disaster.
The factory was going to be built here if only we had bought more of his overpriced junk.M'kay Elon!
FOS as ever.
blueg33 said:
98elise said:
Hydrogen consumes 3x the energy to produce. It leaks out of everything. It needs to be stored at 10000psi, Tanks have a short life (8 years). It also takes longer to fuel than petrol. It's a dead end.
You can't beat physics.
Surely hydrogen is stored st around 13 bar (188psi) as that is the pressure at which it liquifies? Seems unlikely it would need to be stored at 55x pressure. You can't beat physics.
Edit. Done some research. 10000 psi is the absolute top end 5000 is more likely
Add to that the drive train is 10x more expensive to produce (according to BMW)
Then add the massive infrastructure needed.
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 14th November 13:48
Pommy said:
T-195 said:
Lannister902 said:
Brexit has been a disaster.
The factory was going to be built here if only we had bought more of his overpriced junk.M'kay Elon!
FOS as ever.
Perhaps something to do also with the findings or lithium resources in Alsace http://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/significant-lithium-... (only link I could find in english)
Inevitable really. But not entirely down to Brexit......
As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
And let us not forget that the tories have just announced more restrictions on immigration if they win the next GE.
Let's take back control eh lads.......
As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
And let us not forget that the tories have just announced more restrictions on immigration if they win the next GE.
Let's take back control eh lads.......
Piha said:
Inevitable really. But not entirely down to Brexit......
As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
..
Not that convincing. If Tesla advertised well paid jobs in the UK then many of the leavers would return. Much of the brain drain/skill shortage is down to not paying enough.As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
..
Piha said:
Inevitable really. But not entirely down to Brexit......
As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
And let us not forget that the tories have just announced more restrictions on immigration if they win the next GE.
Let's take back control eh lads.......
It's a must to fact check your posts, with your track record. Like when you linked to an article entitled "Viable-but-Nonculturable Listeria monocytogenes and Salmonella enterica Serovar Thompson Induced by Chlorine Stress Remain Infectious" which you assumed corroborated your opinion, but actually proved the opposite As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
And let us not forget that the tories have just announced more restrictions on immigration if they win the next GE.
Let's take back control eh lads.......
And when you google "uk tech investment", the first result is.....
UK sees record foreign investment in tech start-ups
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49413186
I've lost interest in fact checking your post, but that provided much amusement for me
From a pure logistics POV I'd have thought Germany would make sense, or France if they had been in the running. Centrally located and well connected by rail, water and road borne freight to the rest of Europe. Locating in the UK would have geographically been a compromise I'd have thought.
And that's before you get to regulatory alignment issues of us potentially being outside Europe post-Brexit.
And that's before you get to regulatory alignment issues of us potentially being outside Europe post-Brexit.
Piha said:
Inevitable really. But not entirely down to Brexit......
As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
And let us not forget that the tories have just announced more restrictions on immigration if they win the next GE.
Let's take back control eh lads.......
“As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult...........”As 52% of the UK voting population have decided it is a good idea to make regulatory, customs & tariff barriers more difficult between ourselves & our nearest trading neighbours its no surprise the UK is being overlooked by global manufacturers.
Additionally, as investing in the UK tech has dropped we are left with a lack of talent due to the drain brain. The UK’s skills shortage has cost businesses £6.3 billion in the last year alone as they struggled to hire the right people, according to research from the Open University. 3 out of 5 hiring managers have admitted that the skills shortage has worsened over the last year.
This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships. Therefore, it would have been almost impossible for Tesla to find enough workers that are rumoured to be required for the new factory by 2021.
And let us not forget that the tories have just announced more restrictions on immigration if they win the next GE.
Let's take back control eh lads.......
We didn’t vote on that as I recall and in any case Brexit does not mean that should happen.
We had free movement of goods before the EU existed and countries that aren’t members also have that now.
Condi said:
98elise said:
Hydrogen consumes 3x the energy to produce. It leaks out of everything. It needs to be stored at 10000psi, Tanks have a short life (8 years). It also takes longer to fuel than petrol. It's a dead end.
You can't beat physics.
How does it consume 3x the energy to produce? Wikipedia (not the best source, but not usually that wrong) gives electrolysis an 80%+ efficiency, and while there will be losses from the fuel cell I don't see how they can be that inefficient that it goes from 80-90% efficiency at production to 33% by consumption.You can't beat physics.
He's also trousered a cool 100 million investment bribe from Germany to go there over any of Germany's EU partner members.
I'm just wondering where a small state in Germany got 100 million from to give away - EU funding perhaps? No?
Let's be realistic, Brexit or not would you choose a country giving you 100 million to go there over a country who isn't?
I'm just wondering where a small state in Germany got 100 million from to give away - EU funding perhaps? No?
Let's be realistic, Brexit or not would you choose a country giving you 100 million to go there over a country who isn't?
DeepEnd said:
Remainers like Thatch got Nissan, Toyota, Honda to all set up in UK.
Some Brexiters just seem to talk about how no manufacturer will chose the UK.
How inspiring.
You do realise this is a battery producing facility - not a car producing facility?Some Brexiters just seem to talk about how no manufacturer will chose the UK.
How inspiring.
Knowing...:
1/- what volumes of cars are being made by each country.
2/ - And in the next few years all cars will be powered by batteries.
Where would you setup the factory?
Troubleatmill said:
DeepEnd said:
Remainers like Thatch got Nissan, Toyota, Honda to all set up in UK.
Some Brexiters just seem to talk about how no manufacturer will chose the UK.
How inspiring.
You do realise this is a battery producing facility - not a car producing facility?Some Brexiters just seem to talk about how no manufacturer will chose the UK.
How inspiring.
Knowing...:
1/- what volumes of cars are being made by each country.
2/ - And in the next few years all cars will be powered by batteries.
Where would you setup the factory?
So any company looking to expand will just locate themselves in their biggest regional marketplace (well that bodes well for the UK after we walk away from our biggest trading partner). Best tell all other countries to just give up then!
All cars? Are you sure?
Piha said:
Troubleatmill said:
DeepEnd said:
Remainers like Thatch got Nissan, Toyota, Honda to all set up in UK.
Some Brexiters just seem to talk about how no manufacturer will chose the UK.
How inspiring.
You do realise this is a battery producing facility - not a car producing facility?Some Brexiters just seem to talk about how no manufacturer will chose the UK.
How inspiring.
Knowing...:
1/- what volumes of cars are being made by each country.
2/ - And in the next few years all cars will be powered by batteries.
Where would you setup the factory?
So any company looking to expand will just locate themselves in their biggest regional marketplace (well that bodes well for the UK after we walk away from our biggest trading partner). Best tell all other countries to just give up then!
All cars? Are you sure?
Maybe this makes it clearer for you?
austinsmirk said:
pretty logical to have a plant of such a size in mainland Europe, full of its transport links and material supplies, as oppose to on a pokey Island with the massive added cost of shipping everything in/out.
really you have to credit former governments for getting any massive manufacturer- eg nissan, to place anything in the UK.
I found it hilarious on question time the other night, set in sunderland- who voted massively for leave, to then winge about the factory potentially closing, plus lack of jobs, lack of investment in the area.
Masters of their own destiny there !
Sunderland won't close (if it does) due to Brexit. The EU have signed a trade agreement with Japan which means they can import cars tariff free. No EU factories will be needed in the future because of that.really you have to credit former governments for getting any massive manufacturer- eg nissan, to place anything in the UK.
I found it hilarious on question time the other night, set in sunderland- who voted massively for leave, to then winge about the factory potentially closing, plus lack of jobs, lack of investment in the area.
Masters of their own destiny there !
I worked on a hydrogen project with a major oil and with the current techology, pressures and costs it is not going to happen. What the oils are looking to do is maintain their distribution infrastructure and move to "fuelling" batteries with new, for the want of a better word at the moment, "electrolite". The used electrolite could simply be recovered at the same time in the same way that petroleum vapour is recovered whilst you are fuelling.
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