Cut traffic by blocking roads?
Discussion
Another Lewisham PHer here 
I am just off one of the roads that has been blocked. And I think this is going to be terrible.
We were originally told about this pre-corona. We got a leaflet through the door. At that time, it was a Healthy Neighbourhoods initiative.
Then corona happened, and TFL pulled all the funding for that stuff.
So the council got it through by saying that it's now corona related and it's all to help social distancing. Not only that, but under the new normal, they say that they can do this without any formal consultation with residents, because it's "emergency public health measures". I suspect that other London councils have pulled the same trick.
It's meant to be temporary, but it's blatantly obvious that it's going to become permanent.
They are not removing any other traffic calming measures, like the speed bumps. So the roads now look a complete mess.
The sad thing about it is that the elderly and disabled will be hit hardest. If you are fit, you can walk or ride a bike. But the elderly and disabled can't do that. They rely on minicabs, friends with cars, or hospital transport to get around. Now, with the effective Balkanisation of Lewisham, even the shortest journey within residential Lewisham will take ages and cost more money, because you have to basically go all the way to the main road, then go round and then go in again.
I suspect that couriers will be out of pocket because they can do less drops in a day and will spend more on fuel.
The right way to reduce road congestion is to have better public transport and encourage - not compel - people to walk or cycle. But there is nothing of that sort planned here. I asked the council. No new local buses. No new cycle lanes. No improvements to pavements. No school buses. Strange that when it comes to vices like drugs and alcohol, the council believes in empathy and assistance, but when it comes to using a car, the stick approach is seen as fine.
I suspect that the emergency services are going to be completely f
ked by this. And I don't want to do shroud-waving, but I suspect that some people will die because the ambulance took 45 minutes to get to A&E rather than 10 minutes.
This is a Labour run council. The political opposition have been predictably useless.
I reckon that the restrictions are going to end up vandalised pretty soon.
Lewisham has its good points, but there are times when I can't wait to get out of this place.
I am just off one of the roads that has been blocked. And I think this is going to be terrible.We were originally told about this pre-corona. We got a leaflet through the door. At that time, it was a Healthy Neighbourhoods initiative.
Then corona happened, and TFL pulled all the funding for that stuff.
So the council got it through by saying that it's now corona related and it's all to help social distancing. Not only that, but under the new normal, they say that they can do this without any formal consultation with residents, because it's "emergency public health measures". I suspect that other London councils have pulled the same trick.
It's meant to be temporary, but it's blatantly obvious that it's going to become permanent.
They are not removing any other traffic calming measures, like the speed bumps. So the roads now look a complete mess.
The sad thing about it is that the elderly and disabled will be hit hardest. If you are fit, you can walk or ride a bike. But the elderly and disabled can't do that. They rely on minicabs, friends with cars, or hospital transport to get around. Now, with the effective Balkanisation of Lewisham, even the shortest journey within residential Lewisham will take ages and cost more money, because you have to basically go all the way to the main road, then go round and then go in again.
I suspect that couriers will be out of pocket because they can do less drops in a day and will spend more on fuel.
The right way to reduce road congestion is to have better public transport and encourage - not compel - people to walk or cycle. But there is nothing of that sort planned here. I asked the council. No new local buses. No new cycle lanes. No improvements to pavements. No school buses. Strange that when it comes to vices like drugs and alcohol, the council believes in empathy and assistance, but when it comes to using a car, the stick approach is seen as fine.
I suspect that the emergency services are going to be completely f
ked by this. And I don't want to do shroud-waving, but I suspect that some people will die because the ambulance took 45 minutes to get to A&E rather than 10 minutes.This is a Labour run council. The political opposition have been predictably useless.
I reckon that the restrictions are going to end up vandalised pretty soon.
Lewisham has its good points, but there are times when I can't wait to get out of this place.
Johnnytheboy said:
If we shut all the roads all the traffic would go away and the world would be amazing.
As long as you didn't need to go anywhere while carrying stuff.
There'd be a big boom in cargo bikes, bikes with panniers, bikes with baskets...As long as you didn't need to go anywhere while carrying stuff.
But, in a realistic world, if people (especially in cities) avoided driving where possible, a lot of traffic would disappear.
Which would make getting to trackdays and the like much easier
Andy20vt said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agreed regarding the road conditions speed humps, cameras etc. Disagree totally when you say bikes and scooters. They have just as much right to be on the road as you and high quality cycle lanes are few and far between at present. Have you ever considered for a moment how much longer your journey by car would take, and how much more congestion there would be for you if all those people commuting by bike etc instead decided to drive their cars to work? They are actually doing you a big favour by cycling.
Yes I get that an urban environment is busy and chaotic and that sometimes it can be frustrating. There are plenty of s
t cyclists out there and plenty of st car drivers too. I can also understand that it must be doubly hard or frustrating for those drivers who lack spacial awareness and good planning/observation skills when driving. Still, I don't think that gives anyone a reason to moan. If people find driving in a busy urban environment challenging then there are many extra training courses available to help them cope that little bit better. I wonder if the trial of rental electic scootere will fail. Not because people die on them but as soon as they are common people will buy there own illegal ones and councils etc won't get the revenue from them. But you could cover a few miles in a city on your escorted and I suspect the cost would be 50p in electric or less versus rental ones which are very expensive like ebikes which cost more than the tube.
Solocle said:
menousername said:
Harry7612 said:
You would plan your route to arrive in the end you need to access, it’s really not that complicated.
This road has been used as a rat run and there are sufficient main roads in the area, quite agree with this being closed for the benefit of the residents that live there.
Assuming you know its there of course. This is Lewisham. Quite a busy place and an average emergency responder might not be hugely familiar with each road in the boroughThis road has been used as a rat run and there are sufficient main roads in the area, quite agree with this being closed for the benefit of the residents that live there.
menousername said:
Dg504 said:
I don’t expect driving within the north/south circular will ever get easier and in fairness it should be being discouraged as much as possible.
What if its essential to your work? 
If people who were able to do so didn't drive journeys of 0-5 miles, that would be about 50% of car journeys eliminated. Admittedly, for longer journeys, you're on the road for longer, but long journeys really are a small fraction of overall travel.
Edited by Solocle on Friday 3rd July 12:04
menousername said:
A picture from when half the country is not at work??
Some, perhaps many, will continue working from home after this is over. But car use at the deepest part of lockdown was roughly ~40% of what it would have been normally - admittedly, longer journeys were probably disproportionately affected, hence my ability to ride down a trunk road quite comfortably with only a smattering of vehicles passing.But the point stands - a major shift in how local journeys are performed, without even pushing public transport for longer journeys, really would ease up congestion, to quite a similar level. 56% of car journeys (2017 data) were under 5 miles long, which is easily cycleable for the vast majority of the population.
Frankly, 10 miles is pretty damn doable. I'm not suggesting people do 200 mile cycles, like I have! Most journeys are far shorter.
Edited by Solocle on Friday 3rd July 16:43
And yet, there are two roads in the town centre where I am that have a few bars on them, the owners are trying their best to get the county council to temporary close the roads to enable them to have street seating. These are not busy roads, they are talking evenings and Sundays from what I can gather, the borough council are trying to help them, and so far no joy from county. Guess they should have mentioned push bikes, it may have just done the trick!
Solocle said:
Some, perhaps many, will continue working from home after this is over. But car use at the deepest part of lockdown was roughly ~40% of what it would have been normally - admittedly, longer journeys were probably disproportionately affected, hence my ability to ride down a trunk road quite comfortably with only a smattering of vehicles passing.
But the point stands - a major shift in how local journeys are performed, without even pushing public transport for longer journeys, really would ease up congestion, to quite a similar level. 56% of car journeys (2017 data) were under 5 miles long, which is easily cycleable for the vast majority of the population.
Frankly, 10 miles is pretty damn doable. I'm not suggesting people do 200 mile cycles, like I have! Most journeys are far shorter.
Apart from the fact we are discussion traffic in Lewisham. If they weren’t essential journeys they wouldn't be there sitting in traffic (caused by ridiculous local authority restrictions on free movement and choice). People don't do that for fun. Not in Lewisham. But the point stands - a major shift in how local journeys are performed, without even pushing public transport for longer journeys, really would ease up congestion, to quite a similar level. 56% of car journeys (2017 data) were under 5 miles long, which is easily cycleable for the vast majority of the population.
Frankly, 10 miles is pretty damn doable. I'm not suggesting people do 200 mile cycles, like I have! Most journeys are far shorter.
Edited by Solocle on Friday 3rd July 16:43
I am not seeing the shift. Now things are reopening the cyclists (that were only cycling for leisure) are disappearing - back to their cars.
An alternative MUST involve increasing public transport -which would of course be buses - and more congestion.
FunkyNige said:
C.A.R. said:
Don't agree with them using the pavement - obviously - but watching that video where are they supposed to go? What is the alternative? They can't turn around, there are parked cars either side of the road so they can't go back the way they came.
Utterly bonkers idea.
100% this - driving on the pavement is never a good idea but why on earth would the barriers be halfway along a residential street and not at the junction?Utterly bonkers idea.
Also looking at the video, it looks like there would be room to turn around if the car on the right hadn't parked right up against the barrier.
Solocle said:
Johnnytheboy said:
If we shut all the roads all the traffic would go away and the world would be amazing.
As long as you didn't need to go anywhere while carrying stuff.
There'd be a big boom in cargo bikes, bikes with panniers, bikes with baskets...As long as you didn't need to go anywhere while carrying stuff.
But, in a realistic world, if people (especially in cities) avoided driving where possible, a lot of traffic would disappear.
Which would make getting to trackdays and the like much easier
Seattaken said:
South London is well served by buses and trains
What a ridiculous statement. South London is more than 5 million people. You cannot possibly even imagine the variety of their transport needs. Many of these people will be ill served by the public transport they are forced to subsidize. Obstructing other forms of transport just adds insult to injury.grumbledoak said:
Seattaken said:
South London is well served by buses and trains
What a ridiculous statement. South London is more than 5 million people. You cannot possibly even imagine the variety of their transport needs. Many of these people will be ill served by the public transport they are forced to subsidize. Obstructing other forms of transport just adds insult to injury."You don't need a car in London" is just complete nonsense if we are talking about the entire city of 9 million. If they had said in central London you don't need a car they might have more of a point. I don't know as I've never lived there.
The outer suburbs are little different to the surrounds of most other large towns and cities in my experience. For the majority public transport is something used to commute into a job in the centre. For anything local over a certain distance you use a car.
I got out a long time ago but anyone still living there needs to be careful of the politicians they elect. As this story shows.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff