CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)
Discussion
Boringvolvodriver said:
Great response New Bod - you may find out that you are wasting your time though.
Thanks. 
I'm a big supporter of free speech. That means anyone has a right to say how they feel, even if it's deemed corrosive, offensive or ridiculous by others.
It's a shame that the government, big tech giants and the like cannot appreciate this.
From Vol 12.
I don't recall there being gas chambers in Cambodia under Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.
Picking one extreme element of a regime's armoury of repressive measures is not a conclusive rebuttal.
Furthermore their use didn't begin for several years after NASDAP came to power.
The discrimination/repression against certain sectors of the population was a progressively ramped up process over time.
Not a desirable outcome so it's a good idea to unscrew the valve. The longer you wait before doing so though the bigger the rush of escaping steam.
It should have come as no surprise that the NHS is under pressure from a flood of non-Covid patients whose treatment has been put on hold for well over a year.
In particular those suffering from cancer whose lack of early diagnosis and treatment has vastly worsened their condition.
But hey, let's change the label to make it seem to be a condition which is totally without precedent and ramp up the rhetoric accordingly.
To be fair it added some light relief to the situation. It was bloody hilarious. He could literally turn out to be Stephen Hawkins and I still wouldn't be able to take him seriously.
Stephen Hawking?
I reckon most people came to the conclusion it would be like betting with an on-course bookie who would find an excuse not to pay out then quickly fold his pitch and disappear.
CrutyRammers said:
ruggedscotty said:
no gas chambers tho..... no comparison...
Ah ok, so everything is fine, as long as there's no actual industrialised genocide. Glad we know where the line is.Picking one extreme element of a regime's armoury of repressive measures is not a conclusive rebuttal.
Furthermore their use didn't begin for several years after NASDAP came to power.
The discrimination/repression against certain sectors of the population was a progressively ramped up process over time.
Boringvolvodriver said:
Sadly, I think there may be some people who think we should have a vaccination passport scheme for domestic use - I think I have seen some say that unvaccinated people should be denied access to the NHS!
Not on here (yet) but there are some who have openly stated they believe the unvaccinated should be rounded up by the army and imprisoned.Boringvolvodriver said:
Of course, the flaw in the argument is that locking down to protect the NHS causes even more pressure on the NHS and a greater backlog...........
Akin to screwing down a safety valve on a locomotive. A head of steam builds up and there is a risk of explosion.Not a desirable outcome so it's a good idea to unscrew the valve. The longer you wait before doing so though the bigger the rush of escaping steam.
It should have come as no surprise that the NHS is under pressure from a flood of non-Covid patients whose treatment has been put on hold for well over a year.
In particular those suffering from cancer whose lack of early diagnosis and treatment has vastly worsened their condition.
Elysium said:
If long COVID is real then there is nothing we can do about it.
If it’s overblown hysteria then there is nothing we should do about it.
SARS-CoV-2 exists and there is nothing we can do to make it go away. We just need to get on with it.
One might be forgiven for thinking that Post Viral Syndrome didn't exist before SARS-CoV-2 arrived on the scene.If it’s overblown hysteria then there is nothing we should do about it.
SARS-CoV-2 exists and there is nothing we can do to make it go away. We just need to get on with it.
But hey, let's change the label to make it seem to be a condition which is totally without precedent and ramp up the rhetoric accordingly.
bern said:
Venturist said:
Thankyou4calling said:
Only one person took the bet
I went nowhere
The person put the money upfront, it’s how you bet
I was totally clear at all times.
You’re either innocently delusional or deliberately gaslighting but either way you look pretty foolish especially to this crowd & I’d advise you to do the smart thing and quietly drop it rather than keep digging I went nowhere
The person put the money upfront, it’s how you bet
I was totally clear at all times.
Stephen Hawking? I reckon most people came to the conclusion it would be like betting with an on-course bookie who would find an excuse not to pay out then quickly fold his pitch and disappear.
NewBod said:
Nick, the at risk people are vaccinated. To be honest, a lot more than the at risk are vaccinated too.
People seem to have lost sight of the fact that this virus has a very high survival rate.
If the at risk are vaccinated, then what is the problem?
Even with the massive push we have had to vaccinate people, restrictions are still in place. That is nothing to do with the unvaccinated. It just goes to show that it's never enough for our government to remove restrictions.
The government pinned their hopes on this vaccine. The at risk are vaccinated. What is the real cause of the delay?
Or are you saying Nick that the vaccines don't actually work?
As for the cowardly comment, I doubt it. I have suffered from very, very bad anxiety issues since the NHS nearly killed me last year. Because of this, I cannot wear a mask without becoming severely distressed. I haven't worn a mask through any of this and I've been glared at, abused, shouted at, berated etc. However, I have remained strong and refused to wrap my face in a useless piece of cloth or paper. I have consistently been the only person in shops, at school etc. not wearing a mask. If I had been a coward I would have stayed at home and not ventured out anywhere.
As for quarantine free travel, so what. I don't wish to travel anywhere unless these crazy restrictions are removed. To be honest, I have never enjoyed air travels anyway because you are treated worse than animals. This is something that has come about since 9/11, when the world turned dark and those in power changed from being guides to controlling and coercing us.
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
NewBod.People seem to have lost sight of the fact that this virus has a very high survival rate.
If the at risk are vaccinated, then what is the problem?
Even with the massive push we have had to vaccinate people, restrictions are still in place. That is nothing to do with the unvaccinated. It just goes to show that it's never enough for our government to remove restrictions.
The government pinned their hopes on this vaccine. The at risk are vaccinated. What is the real cause of the delay?
Or are you saying Nick that the vaccines don't actually work?
As for the cowardly comment, I doubt it. I have suffered from very, very bad anxiety issues since the NHS nearly killed me last year. Because of this, I cannot wear a mask without becoming severely distressed. I haven't worn a mask through any of this and I've been glared at, abused, shouted at, berated etc. However, I have remained strong and refused to wrap my face in a useless piece of cloth or paper. I have consistently been the only person in shops, at school etc. not wearing a mask. If I had been a coward I would have stayed at home and not ventured out anywhere.
As for quarantine free travel, so what. I don't wish to travel anywhere unless these crazy restrictions are removed. To be honest, I have never enjoyed air travels anyway because you are treated worse than animals. This is something that has come about since 9/11, when the world turned dark and those in power changed from being guides to controlling and coercing us.
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
No i not blame you but eventually we have to take responsibility for our actions or inactions.
I am fortunate in that i am unerringly optimistic and will, always try and get on wit the stuff I can control.
You see travel even pre covid as something unpleasant. That is a very unfortunate outlook to have in life and I find it almost impossible to understand it. It sounds obsessional.
If i infer correctly that you imply vaccine takers are complicit with the government then your judgement is totally flawed and fortunately in a relatively small minority.
Which would you prefer? Massively reduced Covid prevalence within the population and a return to some kind of normality or continuation of this awful situation.
In my opinion it is time to trade dogma for smartness. Peeing in the wind comes to mind. It's never a good idea.
Nickgnome said:
NewBod.
No i not blame you but eventually we have to take responsibility for our actions or inactions.
I am fortunate in that i am unerringly optimistic and will, always try and get on wit the stuff I can control.
You see travel even pre covid as something unpleasant. That is a very unfortunate outlook to have in life and I find it almost impossible to understand it. It sounds obsessional.
If i infer correctly that you imply vaccine takers are complicit with the government then your judgement is totally flawed and fortunately in a relatively small minority.
Which would you prefer? Massively reduced Covid prevalence within the population and a return to some kind of normality or continuation of this awful situation.
In my opinion it is time to trade dogma for smartness. Peeing in the wind comes to mind. It's never a good idea.
Running away to comparatively undeveloped Eastern European nations is not controlling anything; it’s running away.No i not blame you but eventually we have to take responsibility for our actions or inactions.
I am fortunate in that i am unerringly optimistic and will, always try and get on wit the stuff I can control.
You see travel even pre covid as something unpleasant. That is a very unfortunate outlook to have in life and I find it almost impossible to understand it. It sounds obsessional.
If i infer correctly that you imply vaccine takers are complicit with the government then your judgement is totally flawed and fortunately in a relatively small minority.
Which would you prefer? Massively reduced Covid prevalence within the population and a return to some kind of normality or continuation of this awful situation.
In my opinion it is time to trade dogma for smartness. Peeing in the wind comes to mind. It's never a good idea.
If you had the courage of your convictions, you’d ride it out here. Running away might not be a viable option before much longer…
Not-The-Messiah said:
TameRacingDriver said:
How many volumes will this thread get up to? I wouldn't bet against it hitting 3 figures at this stage. Meanwhile the rest of the world will be back to normal and we'll be making trade deals with NK.
I suspect a lot more when lots of other people start to feel the pain and reality of what we have done. Do you honestly think it's just all going to just go back to normal?
My bet if the question, is the cure worse than the disease? is asked again in 5 years time the answer will be very different for a hell of a lot more people.
The most galling thing for me is that we (by dint of the methodology) still have 127k deaths. Over 2 years mind, so 63k a year. Its bad, but it never (at any point) threatened to destroy humanity. Our response carries that threat. Maybe the risk is tiny, but its there. And (2019) normality is long gone.
Did Matt Hancock get anywhere with rebranding the covid testing for flu? Is that quietly going on in the background? Already the mood music is "flu and other respitory diseases will be worse this year". Laying the groundwork......Someone thinks they did such a good job of saving us from covid, they are determined to save us from flu. Whether we like it or not.
Any news of the Nightingales? Is Excel still a vaccination centre? (Has the NHS got a long term contract, or does it revert to an exhibition centre at some point?) Any plans to increase NHS capacity this winter?
Nickgnome said:
NewBod.
No i not blame you but eventually we have to take responsibility for our actions or inactions.
I am fortunate in that i am unerringly optimistic and will, always try and get on wit the stuff I can control.
You see travel even pre covid as something unpleasant. That is a very unfortunate outlook to have in life and I find it almost impossible to understand it. It sounds obsessional.
If i infer correctly that you imply vaccine takers are complicit with the government then your judgement is totally flawed and fortunately in a relatively small minority.
Which would you prefer? Massively reduced Covid prevalence within the population and a return to some kind of normality or continuation of this awful situation.
In my opinion it is time to trade dogma for smartness. Peeing in the wind comes to mind. It's never a good idea.
Nick, I have got on with what I can control. See my post above, I have continued with life even though for a non mask wearer with anxiety, it's been very hard to do so over the last year.No i not blame you but eventually we have to take responsibility for our actions or inactions.
I am fortunate in that i am unerringly optimistic and will, always try and get on wit the stuff I can control.
You see travel even pre covid as something unpleasant. That is a very unfortunate outlook to have in life and I find it almost impossible to understand it. It sounds obsessional.
If i infer correctly that you imply vaccine takers are complicit with the government then your judgement is totally flawed and fortunately in a relatively small minority.
Which would you prefer? Massively reduced Covid prevalence within the population and a return to some kind of normality or continuation of this awful situation.
In my opinion it is time to trade dogma for smartness. Peeing in the wind comes to mind. It's never a good idea.
I doubt my thoughts on travel could be considered obsessive. I stated an option that one is treated worse than animals when travelling. This is a result of 9/11. I had travelled pre covid, but haven't flown for around eight years purely because I don't like it. That's not at all obsessive, it's just a dislike for something.
In relation to being complicit, nothing of the sort. But not thinking critically about things and just doing as you are told by a bunch of liars is incredibly silly. For example, just look at the g7 pictures. At a time when restrictions were due to be extended here, our prime minister was mingling with fellow leaders and people from all around the world. Standing apart for official photos yet touching and cuddling up with them when they forgot the cameras were on. For me, it all comes down to hypocrisy.
As for prevalence of covid in the population, what has the vaccine program achieved if we are still hiding behind our sofas, despite vaccinating so many people? Let's not forget that this vaccine will not eradicate the virus and it looks like it won't even stop it transmitting. There was a time when we accepted risk and got on with life. Look at flu. Over the last year it seems our leaders have tried to cure death and gone all Chinese on us with lockdowns and restrictions.
It wouldn't be so bad if they were honest with us. Their credibility has taken a nose dive over the last year with bad decisions, bad leadership, criminal acts, misinformation and behaviour conditioning. And they base figures of 'cases' on the results of tests that are inaccurate.
Even with what has been achieved so far with vaccinations and what has been done so far with lockdowns and restrictions, we are still nowhere near 2019 normal. Do you honestly think we will going back to 2019 normal soon, even if we have every living person vaccinated?
As for being smart. There is only one way to be smart, by reading, learning and then critically evaluating things for yourself. Just going along with the herd and not questioning anything isnt being smart, its just compliance.
As for peeing in the wind, it can be done fine. You just need to take the time to understand which direction the wind is heading in, aim the old man properly, then spread your legs wide enough to avoid any unwanted splashback.
Thing is Nick, one can learn a great deal when one questions things and thinks critically.
Edited by NewBod on Tuesday 22 June 19:26
currently, flu is killing more people than Covid
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional: week ending 11 June 2021
Of the 84 deaths in England and Wales that involved COVID-19, 66 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (78.6%, Figure 2). The number of deaths mentioning COVID-19 on the death certificate decreased, whereas the number of deaths due to COVID-19 increased. Of the 1,163 deaths that involved influenza and pneumonia, 292 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (25.1%).
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional: week ending 11 June 2021
Of the 84 deaths in England and Wales that involved COVID-19, 66 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (78.6%, Figure 2). The number of deaths mentioning COVID-19 on the death certificate decreased, whereas the number of deaths due to COVID-19 increased. Of the 1,163 deaths that involved influenza and pneumonia, 292 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (25.1%).
Nickgnome said:
V1nce Fox said:
No thanks.
It is of course your choice but in the unfortunate situation that this debacle continues do not be surprised if fingers of blame start to be pointed your way. I suppose there will always be those that expect others to take the (minimal) risk that they themselves are not prepared to.
There is a huge difference between those who cannot be cannot be vaccinated and those who choose not to be.
There is no ethical defence for it. If you think there is, have a go here.
Not wanting to repeat myself...
- My wife has had her first injection, second booked in. Pfizer as she can't have AZ.
- Both my parents have had theirs. Both AZ.
I have not had the vaccine.
I'm 42, fit and healthy with no known underlying health conditions. I did have a minor complication with my heart as a child but this corrected itself. I'm never off sick from work and rarely catch colds.
I would never tell someone *not* to have the jab. It's down to the individual.
Will I get the vaccine? Not yet, my stance hasn't changed. I'm watching to see how it unfolds. Will there be more lockdowns in Autumn? Will there be a run of boosters? How will the government handle it?
I will not he blackmailed or coerced into getting the vaccine.
Let's face it...they're making a lot of this up as they go. I also want to see more of the longer term data from those who've had the injection(s). Especially if they start adding boosters to the mix.
Will life go back to normal? I don't think it will without the public pushing back. Too many have an easy life at the minute with furlough and WFH. Just wait until the bill for this all comes in or they need nhs treatment.
It's a mess.
- My wife has had her first injection, second booked in. Pfizer as she can't have AZ.
- Both my parents have had theirs. Both AZ.
I have not had the vaccine.
I'm 42, fit and healthy with no known underlying health conditions. I did have a minor complication with my heart as a child but this corrected itself. I'm never off sick from work and rarely catch colds.
I would never tell someone *not* to have the jab. It's down to the individual.
Will I get the vaccine? Not yet, my stance hasn't changed. I'm watching to see how it unfolds. Will there be more lockdowns in Autumn? Will there be a run of boosters? How will the government handle it?
I will not he blackmailed or coerced into getting the vaccine.
Let's face it...they're making a lot of this up as they go. I also want to see more of the longer term data from those who've had the injection(s). Especially if they start adding boosters to the mix.
Will life go back to normal? I don't think it will without the public pushing back. Too many have an easy life at the minute with furlough and WFH. Just wait until the bill for this all comes in or they need nhs treatment.
It's a mess.
NewBod said:
<snip, apologies >
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
An excellent rebuttal Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
Pupp said:
Running away to comparatively undeveloped Eastern European nations is not controlling anything; it’s running away.
If you had the courage of your convictions, you’d ride it out here. Running away might not be a viable option before much longer…
I am currently here in the UK , I come and go every few months as my business dictates along with Italy and France. If you had the courage of your convictions, you’d ride it out here. Running away might not be a viable option before much longer…
Perhaps you may wish to brush up on your knowledge of one of the most technologically advanced countries of the Eu.
johnboy1975 said:
NewBod said:
<snip, apologies >
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
An excellent rebuttal Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
johnboy1975 said:
NewBod said:
<snip, apologies >
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
An excellent rebuttal Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
Alucidnation said:
johnboy1975 said:
NewBod said:
<snip, apologies >
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
An excellent rebuttal Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
Edited by NewBod on Tuesday 22 June 19:30
steveT350C said:
johnboy1975 said:
NewBod said:
<snip, apologies >
Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
An excellent rebuttal Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.
And thanks Volvo.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff