CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 15)

[thewarlock]

TypeRTim said:

Rufus Stone said:

Good old fashion greed huh. Who is benefiting though?

Shareholders in Pfizer for one! Less so for Moderna and Astra Zeneca... Those people in governments where they have declared Emergency Powers and essentially have dictatorial control. The "Scientists" who have been thrust in to the limelight and are now getting mainstream TV slots on talk shows etc.

Can tell you who isn't benefitting from any of this nonsense though, regular people!

So, it's a conspiracy perpetrated by the government on behalf of big pharma and scientific government advisers who are getting some TV time from it.

That doesn't sound just a little bit insane to you?

[Douglas Quaid]

Rufus Stone said:

Douglas Quaid said:

Money

Big phama, friends of Matt Hancock from the pub etc.?

You can’t deny that there have been people that have capitalised on the situation and pushed it in a certain direction to profit. I don’t think it was a grand conspiracy, I just think that people that are making huge amounts of money from it are keen to keep it going rather than let the world move on.

[Rufus Stone]

RemarkLima said:

The shareholders for the most part - and all the senior mgmt will have a load of shares as part of the packages, they'll be happy with anything to boost share price, and get those dividends paying out.

At €18.50 a shot for the Pfizer jab, why bother selling to poor countries which can't afford that? Just flog it to the rich ones over and over again.

Pfizers profits are indeed up. Other cheaper vaccines are available though.

For comparison, any idea how much a flu vaccine costs the NHS?

[mondeoman]

g4ry13 said:

steveT350C said:

Taiwan: more dying from Covid jabs than from Covid

https://twitter.com/kukicat7/status/14486574785314...

The Oxford Astrazeneca is winning in the killing leaderboard.

Do we get any prizes for that?

YIKES - I'm holding out for AZ instead of Pfizer - is that a bad call??

[Rufus Stone]

Douglas Quaid said:

You can’t deny that there have been people that have capitalised on the situation and pushed it in a certain direction to profit. I don’t think it was a grand conspiracy, I just think that people that are making huge amounts of money from it are keen to keep it going rather than let the world move on.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree.

[M1AGM]

RemarkLima said:

The shareholders for the most part - and all the senior mgmt will have a load of shares as part of the packages, they'll be happy with anything to boost share price, and get those dividends paying out.

At €18.50 a shot for the Pfizer jab, why bother selling to poor countries which can't afford that? Just flog it to the rich ones over and over again.

Pfizer. So their share price was in decline through 2019 and hit it’s low early March 2020 losing around 25% of its market value from the 2018 highs. Since March 2020 the stock has unsurprisingly rallied to 20% higher than its previous peak (2018) before dropping back around 10% in recent months (I expect from profit taking). This isn’t remarkable for a healthcare company producing jabs in a pandemic, but shows that there is money in them needles. I can never understand why people think pharma do stuff for our benefit when they are not in the game to be altruistic but simply to make as much money as possible pushing whatever they can.

[RemarkLima]

Rufus Stone said:

RemarkLima said:

The shareholders for the most part - and all the senior mgmt will have a load of shares as part of the packages, they'll be happy with anything to boost share price, and get those dividends paying out.

At €18.50 a shot for the Pfizer jab, why bother selling to poor countries which can't afford that? Just flog it to the rich ones over and over again.

Pfizers profits are indeed up. Other cheaper vaccines are available though.

For comparison, any idea how much a flu vaccine costs the NHS?

AZ aren't selling at a profit, and aren't a vaccine manufacturer so have been muscled out pretty much, especially for their daft, altruistic views of selling at cost! From memory, they were ~£3 a shot.

The flu vaccine is about £15 a shot, give or take, and is a one time thing. Obviously, the take up is significantly lower, hence the annual profits from the flu vaccine are more modest. So the Covid vaccines are commensurate, but don't forget the Pfizer (and ModeRNA IIRC) one needs to be stored in a cold chain at -80C, so the energy and logistics costs are significantly higher on top of the actual jab itself.

A bag of chemo usually come's in around £500 - £1k, hence a course of chemo is usually around £10k - £15k for the chemo, and then a shed ton more for the bed, the care, the additional drugs to stop you puking etc... So cheap in comparison to the Pfizer shots, but the volume just isn't there!!

Statins are a good one thos, from about £3 to £25 for a month, but the beauty here is that once started, most are on them for life, and as the cholesterol threshold comes down and down, more and more people fall into the category and there's a nice revenue stream.

So the real trick is volume - now if you could convince everyone (I'm sure you could!) that they should have a couple of rounds of chemo, "just in case", it's be a real money spinner. And you may know, that after a cancer removal, even if there's nothing else detected, then it's suggested to have a round to mop up, just in case... So why not go sign up for a round of chemo?

Edited by RemarkLima on Thursday 14th October 16:36

[Harrison Bergeron]

mondeoman said:

Cant see the garden centres turning away the vulnerable quadruple jabbed, even though they probably shouldn't even be outside of their homes this winter.

But it's for their own good. The garden center owners can always retrain or start a new business.

And as we'll find out again this afternoon it's not the under 40s unvaxxed dying en mass from wuhan flu.

[Nickgnome]

mondeoman said:

So, basically, I was right. Shortages and inflation are real, so the economy isn't some sunny uplands the way you intimated.

Thanks for confirming.

My pleasure, I intimated, implied no such thing with regard to the economy so your inference is incorrect. The word i used was recovering and you cannot deny that employment is holding up well. Is circa 4.5% wage increase especially for low paid workers a bad thing?

[RemarkLima]

M1AGM said:

RemarkLima said:

The shareholders for the most part - and all the senior mgmt will have a load of shares as part of the packages, they'll be happy with anything to boost share price, and get those dividends paying out.

At €18.50 a shot for the Pfizer jab, why bother selling to poor countries which can't afford that? Just flog it to the rich ones over and over again.

Pfizer. So their share price was in decline through 2019 and hit it’s low early March 2020 losing around 25% of its market value from the 2018 highs. Since March 2020 the stock has unsurprisingly rallied to 20% higher than its previous peak (2018) before dropping back around 10% in recent months (I expect from profit taking). This isn’t remarkable for a healthcare company producing jabs in a pandemic, but shows that there is money in them needles. I can never understand why people think pharma do stuff for our benefit when they are not in the game to be altruistic but simply to make as much money as possible pushing whatever they can.

Yep, they're of course out for profits above all else. Much like banks make sure that you do not pay of debt early as it's not in their interest.

My mum used to be a nurse in a GP surgery (having done hospital wards, A&E and district nursing), and the sales reps are always doing the round, offering kick backs and perks for amount of product X sold. It may as well be photocopiers and toner at that level, as it's just sell product X and as much as you can!

[Elysium]

jameswills said:

Elysium said:

A new graph for a new volume

Cases per 100k tests and Deaths within 28 Days have been running at higher levels in summer 2021 than they did last year. Because of Delta and the 'exit wave' triggered by the removal of all domestic restrictions (at least in England).

However, we have now reached the point where seasonality began to drive growth in 2020

The dotted lines are 2020 and the solid ones are 2021. Right now 2020 looks worse. The big question is what happens next:

I’m more concerned about general excess deaths this year, I think we are on course to surpass last years total deaths. I don’t think we can ignore that lockdowns and possibly vaccinations will have played a part there. These graphs make us feel like Covid is “under control”, but personally I think health wise we are just beginning, and there is a long way to go yet before we can conclude any measures including vaccinations have had a positive effect.

I am not convinced deaths in 2021 are likely to surpass 2020.

Excess deaths in England and Wales during 2020 stand at 66,125, which represents a 12% increase compared to the 5 year average. As of week 39 in 2021 we are at 31,530 excess deaths, which is just under 8% above average.

[Nickgnome]

M1AGM said:

Pfizer. So their share price was in decline through 2019 and hit it’s low early March 2020 losing around 25% of its market value from the 2018 highs. Since March 2020 the stock has unsurprisingly rallied to 20% higher than its previous peak (2018) before dropping back around 10% in recent months (I expect from profit taking). This isn’t remarkable for a healthcare company producing jabs in a pandemic, but shows that there is money in them needles. I can never understand why people think pharma do stuff for our benefit when they are not in the game to be altruistic but simply to make as much money as possible pushing whatever they can.

There are far more lucrative ways of making money than being in the Pharmaceuticals industry. It is fairly high risk

Of course they do not employ people either and all their drugs are completely pointless.

No pension funds invest either do they?

What a strange attitude you have.

[B'stard Child]

Elysium said:

A new graph for a new volume

Cases per 100k tests and Deaths within 28 Days have been running at higher levels in summer 2021 than they did last year. Because of Delta and the 'exit wave' triggered by the removal of all domestic restrictions (at least in England).

However, we have now reached the point where seasonality began to drive growth in 2020

The dotted lines are 2020 and the solid ones are 2021. Right now 2020 looks worse. The big question is what happens next:

Hopefully the vaccination program and exposure of the unvaccinated has done enough to keep us the right side of the 2020 line - I expect some creep upwards but I would be surprised to see the media using that "exponential" word this year

[M1AGM]

Nickgnome said:

M1AGM said:

Pfizer. So their share price was in decline through 2019 and hit it’s low early March 2020 losing around 25% of its market value from the 2018 highs. Since March 2020 the stock has unsurprisingly rallied to 20% higher than its previous peak (2018) before dropping back around 10% in recent months (I expect from profit taking). This isn’t remarkable for a healthcare company producing jabs in a pandemic, but shows that there is money in them needles. I can never understand why people think pharma do stuff for our benefit when they are not in the game to be altruistic but simply to make as much money as possible pushing whatever they can.

There are far more lucrative ways of making money than being in the Pharmaceuticals industry. It is fairly high risk

Of course they do not employ people either and all their drugs are completely pointless.

No pension funds invest either do they?

What a strange attitude you have.

What attitude is that? Your post is bizarre.

[bodhi]

Nickgnome said:

There are far more lucrative ways of making money than being in the Pharmaceuticals industry. It is fairly high risk

Of course they do not employ people either and all their drugs are completely pointless.

No pension funds invest either do they?

What a strange attitude you have.

Thought you'd recently decided that it was best to "leave the conspiracy loons to it"?

Must admit you've picked an awfully strange way to do it.

[Nickgnome]

M1AGM said:

Nickgnome said:

M1AGM said:

Pfizer. So their share price was in decline through 2019 and hit it’s low early March 2020 losing around 25% of its market value from the 2018 highs. Since March 2020 the stock has unsurprisingly rallied to 20% higher than its previous peak (2018) before dropping back around 10% in recent months (I expect from profit taking). This isn’t remarkable for a healthcare company producing jabs in a pandemic, but shows that there is money in them needles. I can never understand why people think pharma do stuff for our benefit when they are not in the game to be altruistic but simply to make as much money as possible pushing whatever they can.

There are far more lucrative ways of making money than being in the Pharmaceuticals industry. It is fairly high risk

Of course they do not employ people either and all their drugs are completely pointless.

No pension funds invest either do they?

What a strange attitude you have.

What attitude is that? Your post is bizarre.

That you consider a companies sole purpose is just to make money and not be the best at their core business.

Do you not want to excel?

[Nickgnome]

bodhi said:

Thought you'd recently decided that it was best to "leave the conspiracy loons to it"?

Must admit you've picked an awfully strange way to do it.

Fair Cop.

At least you seem to concur with the label.

[PH4555]

Can people learn some discipline and stop engaging with gnome. Nothing good will come of it.

[bodhi]

Nickgnome said:

Fair Cop.

At least you seem to concur with the label.

Not really, that's why I put it in quotes. Mostly as labeling people is bad, mm'kay.

[Nickgnome]

PH4555 said:

Can people learn some discipline and stop engaging with gnome. Nothing good will come of it.

Surely a bit of levity to break the tedium of Obsessive, compulsive depressive views here.

Please carry on talking amongst yourselves.