Don't bother calling HMRC…
Discussion
JagLover said:
I would however disagree with their being no quiet period for self-assessment. After all according to the stats 3/4 million tax returns were filed on 31 January alone this year, with December and January being by far the busiest months.
The workflow of my colleagues in private tax alternated between not very busy and being manically busy all January, including weekend and late night working.
But don't HMRC keep telling people not to leave it to the last minute?The workflow of my colleagues in private tax alternated between not very busy and being manically busy all January, including weekend and late night working.
So if you don't leave it and try and sort it out early, what do you find? Ah yes, the help line is closed, so forcing people to, erm, leave it to the last minute.
JagLover said:
I fully agree that they have got worse over the years and I also agree that the child benefit charge is very stupid.
I would however disagree with their being no quiet period for self-assessment. After all according to the stats 3/4 million tax returns were filed on 31 January alone this year, with December and January being by far the busiest months.
The workflow of my colleagues in private tax alternated between not very busy and being manically busy all January, including weekend and late night working.
No - accept that you might be wrong on this one (hard, I know). I would however disagree with their being no quiet period for self-assessment. After all according to the stats 3/4 million tax returns were filed on 31 January alone this year, with December and January being by far the busiest months.
The workflow of my colleagues in private tax alternated between not very busy and being manically busy all January, including weekend and late night working.
There is no "quiet time". There may be "slightly quieter times" but that's not the same as "quiet times" and irrelevant to these numbskull and idiotic proposals.
If you shut down the help line until the time when you think demand is going to be getting higher, then you are absolutely guaranteeing that the busy time will be crazy busy and will not cope.
It was a very stupid thing to announce and it is quite right that all those who have to deal with their current abysmal system were 100% right to protest. HMRC has changed their mind pretty promptly although I am sure they will implement this at some point when they get the chance.
The ultimate aim of HMRC is to have ALL UK taxpayers or 3rd parties - such as employers, traders etc 100% responsible for calculating tax liabilities, know and fully understand the complex tax rules that apply to their individual circumstances, and what's more calculate their own tax liabilities accurately.
It is very, very unfair to put that burden onto non tax trained people and a grave abdication of their duty as Civil Servants. Withdrawing the ability to help taxpayers is attrocious.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 20th March 14:55
snuffy said:
Eric Mc said:
They've changed their mind.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68616330That really takes incompetence to a whole new level.
They must have known they would be criticised for doing it, and in less than a day, they change their minds. So why even bother to say you are going to do something ?
You really don't think that if the minister had at that time said "don't be so stupid" that HMRC would have continued?
And have you really missed the dire state the government is in and is desperately casting around for any "look over there" news stories to cover up its current woes.
A snip of an article this afternoon:
"In less than 24 hours HMRC has abandoned plans to permanently close helplines as it reels from angry criticism of the decision
After the announcement yesterday that HMRC was to close the self assessment helpline for six months from April and ravage the VAT helpline, reducing the service to five days only, HMRC has backed down.
The move was met with widespread criticism with few tax advisers and accountants able to understand why HMRC was taking such a radical step when HMRC’s online services are just not accessible enough for people to resolve their tax queries, particularly if they have any problems outside basic issues.
As millions are dragged into tax for the first time, and into higher rates of tax, demand for expert advice from HMRC officials will only increase.
The government needs to invest substantial amounts in HMRC’s IT systems to make them more user friendly and accessible for the majority of taxpayers.
HMRC said it was ‘halting its plans in response to the feedback while it engages with its stakeholders about how to ensure all taxpayers’ needs – including small businesses – are met as HMRC shifts more people to online self-service in the longer term’.
In an embarrassing u-turn, HMRC has been caught on the hop and illustrated the dangers of a failure to consult with the profession, accountants, tax advisers, institutes and the business community before taking such a major decision.
In an announcement from HMRC, the head of the tax authority admitted that the move to force people online was being taken too quickly.
Jim Harra, chief executive of HMRC said: ‘The pace of this change needs to match the public appetite for managing their tax affairs online.
‘We’ve listened to the feedback and we’re halting the helpline changes as we recognise more needs to be done to ensure all taxpayers’ needs are met, whilst also encouraging them to transition to online services."
Jima Harra needs a P45.
"In less than 24 hours HMRC has abandoned plans to permanently close helplines as it reels from angry criticism of the decision
After the announcement yesterday that HMRC was to close the self assessment helpline for six months from April and ravage the VAT helpline, reducing the service to five days only, HMRC has backed down.
The move was met with widespread criticism with few tax advisers and accountants able to understand why HMRC was taking such a radical step when HMRC’s online services are just not accessible enough for people to resolve their tax queries, particularly if they have any problems outside basic issues.
As millions are dragged into tax for the first time, and into higher rates of tax, demand for expert advice from HMRC officials will only increase.
The government needs to invest substantial amounts in HMRC’s IT systems to make them more user friendly and accessible for the majority of taxpayers.
HMRC said it was ‘halting its plans in response to the feedback while it engages with its stakeholders about how to ensure all taxpayers’ needs – including small businesses – are met as HMRC shifts more people to online self-service in the longer term’.
In an embarrassing u-turn, HMRC has been caught on the hop and illustrated the dangers of a failure to consult with the profession, accountants, tax advisers, institutes and the business community before taking such a major decision.
In an announcement from HMRC, the head of the tax authority admitted that the move to force people online was being taken too quickly.
Jim Harra, chief executive of HMRC said: ‘The pace of this change needs to match the public appetite for managing their tax affairs online.
‘We’ve listened to the feedback and we’re halting the helpline changes as we recognise more needs to be done to ensure all taxpayers’ needs are met, whilst also encouraging them to transition to online services."
Jima Harra needs a P45.
vaud said:
Having had a tour of the Telford contact centers and understanding the perks and conditions that they have I'm not sure we will notice the difference.
Between flex working, strict timing for when they pick up the phone and union support...
Not easy for HMRC to staff with a finite local labour pool in the arse end of nowhere. (the surrounds of Telford are nice but it's not exactly a destination for employees)
They were one of the utterly fBetween flex working, strict timing for when they pick up the phone and union support...
Not easy for HMRC to staff with a finite local labour pool in the arse end of nowhere. (the surrounds of Telford are nice but it's not exactly a destination for employees)
king useless clients that decided Mrs Digga to quit big IT for good. I cannot repeat stories p, other than to say total and complete lack of diligence or competence must have been a pre-requisite for hiring.Some very elementary and crucial lessons when you first go into business for yourself:
1. You work for a living, HMRC do not.
2. You work for a living, the Civil Service does not.
3. NEVER cheap on your accountant, they absolutely earn their fee.
4. It’s your business. It’s your money. You and only you care about your money, so learn everything you need to know about your money. This includes the myriad of tax rules that will be applicable to you and you will be liable against.
5. You will struggle to find the words to understand which bunch of fking morons put together the absolute drivel that you will encounter in 4.
6. You will understand 5 and then 4 once you understand and accept 1 & 2.
7. You will learn that you know more about money, economics and finance than anybody in HMRC. This will depress you.
8. You will learn that you more about money, economics and finance than any Financial Director or anybody in there in any of your clients that you come across. This will just confuse you.
9. Pay your accountant more because eventually you learn that a good one can make most of this pain not your problem.
1. You work for a living, HMRC do not.
2. You work for a living, the Civil Service does not.
3. NEVER cheap on your accountant, they absolutely earn their fee.
4. It’s your business. It’s your money. You and only you care about your money, so learn everything you need to know about your money. This includes the myriad of tax rules that will be applicable to you and you will be liable against.
5. You will struggle to find the words to understand which bunch of f
king morons put together the absolute drivel that you will encounter in 4.6. You will understand 5 and then 4 once you understand and accept 1 & 2.
7. You will learn that you know more about money, economics and finance than anybody in HMRC. This will depress you.
8. You will learn that you more about money, economics and finance than any Financial Director or anybody in there in any of your clients that you come across. This will just confuse you.
9. Pay your accountant more because eventually you learn that a good one can make most of this pain not your problem.
Eric Mc said:
We are in a car being driven by a bunch of inebriated clowns.
https://pbfcomics.com/comics/honk/
One example of how back HMRC are, I read this online ages ago, so hopefully it's accurate.
When they introduced making tax digital, they overlooked that people might want to transfer VAT registrations to another business. At that point, they had already got rid of staff or re-allocated them as they didn't need them anymore due to the new system.
While they developed the functionality to transfer VAT numbers, they assembled a small team to do it manually, which resulted in 8 - 16 month wait times for VAT transfers.
How does an organisation, who's main job is to collect and manage tax, get something like that so wrong?
When they introduced making tax digital, they overlooked that people might want to transfer VAT registrations to another business. At that point, they had already got rid of staff or re-allocated them as they didn't need them anymore due to the new system.
While they developed the functionality to transfer VAT numbers, they assembled a small team to do it manually, which resulted in 8 - 16 month wait times for VAT transfers.
How does an organisation, who's main job is to collect and manage tax, get something like that so wrong?
TheBinarySheep said:
One example of how back HMRC are, I read this online ages ago, so hopefully it's accurate.
When they introduced making tax digital, they overlooked that people might want to transfer VAT registrations to another business. At that point, they had already got rid of staff or re-allocated them as they didn't need them anymore due to the new system.
While they developed the functionality to transfer VAT numbers, they assembled a small team to do it manually, which resulted in 8 - 16 month wait times for VAT transfers.
How does an organisation, who's main job is to collect and manage tax, get something like that so wrong?
Fundamentally, it's because they aren't in control of spending/manging their own organisation.When they introduced making tax digital, they overlooked that people might want to transfer VAT registrations to another business. At that point, they had already got rid of staff or re-allocated them as they didn't need them anymore due to the new system.
While they developed the functionality to transfer VAT numbers, they assembled a small team to do it manually, which resulted in 8 - 16 month wait times for VAT transfers.
How does an organisation, who's main job is to collect and manage tax, get something like that so wrong?
A lot of central government stuff is like this -- DVLA's a prime example of where there are good IT staff who have no money or control over the projects they know need to happen in order for the service to work properly.
The people in charge of the budgets don't want to spend on government (because that's their politics) and have no problem with it failing (because that's their politics).
So you wind up with people who both know how to solve it and want to solve it, held up by folk who don't want to spend and don't care if it fails.
(soruce: own experience, I've done work for loads of govt departments, only a few are above this sort of problem and those are usually things without public customers).
Privatised projects are arguably worse -- they *are* worse from my point of view.
CraigyMc said:
DVLA's a prime example of where there are good IT staff who have no money or control over the projects they know need to happen in order for the service to work properly.
Dunno. Mrs Digga would routinely have very confrontational progress meetings where, the lack of progress being argued about, was because the PS client had not provided information they agreed to at the prior meeting.There was this idiotic, circular argument:
"Why have we not signed off this key stage?!"
"Beacuse you have not given us X, Y and Z."
"When can you get it done by?"
"Well, when are you actually going to provide X, Y and Z?![you
s]" Digga said:
CraigyMc said:
DVLA's a prime example of where there are good IT staff who have no money or control over the projects they know need to happen in order for the service to work properly.
Dunno. Mrs Digga would routinely have very confrontational progress meetings where, the lack of progress being argued about, was because the PS client had not provided information they agreed to at the prior meeting.There was this idiotic, circular argument:
"Why have we not signed off this key stage?!"
"Beacuse you have not given us X, Y and Z."
"When can you get it done by?"
"Well, when are you actually going to provide X, Y and Z?![you
s]" 
Digga said:
There was this idiotic, circular argument:
"Why have we not signed off this key stage?!"
"Beacuse you have not given us X, Y and Z."
"When can you get it done by?"
"Well, when are you actually going to provide X, Y and Z?![yous]"
I see that in my work all the time."Why have we not signed off this key stage?!"
"Beacuse you have not given us X, Y and Z."
"When can you get it done by?"
"Well, when are you actually going to provide X, Y and Z?![you
s]" The customer will ask when zyz is going to be done?
We reply that we need information from them, because only they know that information, and we do not.
At which, nothing then happens, because now the customer had to do something, and that is too much like hard work for them.
The Wookie said:
Eric Mc said:
There is ALWAYS a problem getting through to a human being at HMRC
I wasn't aware HMRC employed human beings? 
Eric Mc said:
To be honest, that is a bit unfair. Generally speaking, if and when you do get to speak to a person at HMRC they are invariably helpful, polite and even funny. The problem isn't the people, it's that there aren't enough of them.
That seems to be the case everywhere these days. Personal contact with customers is often a good way of preventing spending resources on mistakes/omissions but is usually just seen in terms of cost. A friend who worked in HMRC said that the forced merging of IR and C&E tried to combine two different management systems and cultures.
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