should bankers be forced to pay back there bonus.

[Maxf]

joscal said:

Of course I would BUT, if my company lost a fortune two years later I would be responsible!!

Yep, you'd lose your job and maybe your company and would have to live on your savings - from your previous bonuses It is the very top tier of management in each of the banks who are responsible - not the guys (even the well paid ones) who are leaving LB with cardboard boxes full of staplers, which is who the majority of ill feeling seems to be directed towards, just because they took home a good salary for a few years.

What I do disagree with (not just in banking) is when an underperforming CEO gets a 7 or 8 figure bung to leave, or takes home a huge bonus regardless of performance. That isnt likely to happen at the moment (in banking).

[off_again]

Enterprise sales people in the IT market can often earn something like 2% - 4% gross profit as commission. On multi-million pound deals that can amount to a fair amount of change. Spread that over a few years and you will often find some of them earning millions. Its the same deal - they earned the company they work for a shed load of money......

If the software or IT that they sold turns out to be turd, its not their fault.... they sold it in good faith. Should the sales person be forced to give back the money they earned because someone else screwed up? Not at all.

In the case of the finance market, you have some fund managers making hundreds of millions for their companies - a 2% slice of the gross profit is a lot of money.... seems fair.

[poocherama]

joscal said:

Of course I would BUT, if my company lost a fortune two years later I would be responsible!!

Indeed you might, but would you pay the money back? Also the people making money in the city pay tax, as do the companies they work for, so its their money doing the bailing as well...

Not to worry though mega money will continue to be made in the city, always has, always will.

[joscal]

audidoody said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

caterhamboy said:

in light of everything, should the bankers at any level be made to pay back any bonuses they have had say in the last 5yrs? surely this would create a nice pool of money instead of the tax payer bailing them out. i know a lot will say they have spent it, but i say tough pay it back or face prison. they have all been greedy and it is affecting the man in the street. fraud..

Oh dear oh dear.

You clearly understand nothing about how the city works.

Bonuses are generally paid in shares, which you've no doubt noticed are now worthless.


Jealousy is a most unappealing trait.


Oh, and it's "their"

It seems the nub of the problem may have been that many in the City clearly did not understand how it works.

Edited by audidoody on Tuesday 16th September 14:10

Precisely!!

[joscal]

poocherama said:

joscal said:

Of course I would BUT, if my company lost a fortune two years later I would be responsible!!

Indeed you might, but would you pay the money back? Also the people making money in the city pay tax, as do the companies they work for, so its their money doing the bailing as well...

Not to worry though mega money will continue to be made in the city, always has, always will.

If my company went bankrupt then of course I would be personally liable.

I am playing devils advocate a bit here as I do understand it's not as black and white as some people make out. I also know that there have been some horrendeously stupid deals done by major banks where greed played a major part. It has come back to bite us all and to be honest I don't think it's over yet!

[Neil_H]

J-Skid said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

joscal said:

The insane bonuses paid in the city like below are obscene because I didn't get one and it's not fair.

EFA.

I have to say that this all the crap on here is getting a bit tiring. Simple facts are that not everyone who works in a bank earns load - as had been said before, 90% of those in the City work damn hard for very ordinary pay indeed.

Edited by J-Skid on Tuesday 16th September 14:10

Agreed, what a load of bks is being spouted.

[chancha]

Whilst it appears that the OP's original statement is ludicrous, I think he has stumbled on the crux of the matter here. Having read a number of associated threads about the whole financial meltdown it appears that the simple question of who is responsible for this mess has not been asked too loudly. Why is that?

[Timmy35]

chancha said:

Whilst it appears that the OP's original statement is ludicrous, I think he has stumbled on the crux of the matter here. Having read a number of associated threads about the whole financial meltdown it appears that the simple question of who is responsible for this mess has not been asked too loudly. Why is that?

Because the BBC is unlikely even at this stage to turn on New Labour and Brown.

[esselte]

joscal said:

If my company went bankrupt then of course I would be personally liable.

Even if you're a Ltd. company?

[off_again]

chancha said:

Whilst it appears that the OP's original statement is ludicrous, I think he has stumbled on the crux of the matter here. Having read a number of associated threads about the whole financial meltdown it appears that the simple question of who is responsible for this mess has not been asked too loudly. Why is that?

As much as I would like to blame the axis of evil, I struggle to pin the blame on Iran or North Korea. So maybe its actually down to us all and our greed?

Just a thought.

[esselte]

off_again said:

chancha said:

Whilst it appears that the OP's original statement is ludicrous, I think he has stumbled on the crux of the matter here. Having read a number of associated threads about the whole financial meltdown it appears that the simple question of who is responsible for this mess has not been asked too loudly. Why is that?

As much as I would like to blame the axis of evil, I struggle to pin the blame on Iran or North Korea. So maybe its actually down to us all and our greed?

Just a thought.

Who is "us"?

[Timmy35]

esselte said:

off_again said:

chancha said:

Whilst it appears that the OP's original statement is ludicrous, I think he has stumbled on the crux of the matter here. Having read a number of associated threads about the whole financial meltdown it appears that the simple question of who is responsible for this mess has not been asked too loudly. Why is that?

As much as I would like to blame the axis of evil, I struggle to pin the blame on Iran or North Korea. So maybe its actually down to us all and our greed?

Just a thought.

Who is "us"?

The people who delighted because house prices had tripled without any fundamental reason to have done so, who decided that they needed a house in Spain, a house in Bulgaria, a house in Orlando, and accepted Labours 'economic miracle' at face value.

No one was complaining when securitisation of mortgages allowed the price of their house to rocket did they? No they just bought a new car, had a nice holiday and congratulated themselves on their financial genuis in buying a house.

[off_again]

Timmy35 said:

esselte said:

off_again said:

chancha said:

Whilst it appears that the OP's original statement is ludicrous, I think he has stumbled on the crux of the matter here. Having read a number of associated threads about the whole financial meltdown it appears that the simple question of who is responsible for this mess has not been asked too loudly. Why is that?

As much as I would like to blame the axis of evil, I struggle to pin the blame on Iran or North Korea. So maybe its actually down to us all and our greed?

Just a thought.

Who is "us"?

The people who delighted because house prices had tripled without any fundamental reason to have done so, who decided that they needed a house in Spain, a house in Bulgaria, a house in Orlando, and accepted Labours 'economic miracle' at face value.

No one was complaining when securitisation of mortgages allowed the price of their house to rocket did they? No they just bought a new car, had a nice holiday and congratulated themselves on their financial genuis in buying a house.

Like he said - its all of 'us'.

Some have benefited more than others. Personally I have done OK, but others have taken advantage of leveraged mortgages to build a portfolio of properties. Fair enough I suppose, but I have to wonder exactly how many if these Blairs-babies would be living in France of Spain if it weren't for the house price rises?

Oh, and I found a great quote on a news website:

"Everyone has gone for a swim in the sea, but the tide is out and everyone is naked"



Sums it up.

[ali_kat]

caterhamboy said:

wasn't saying that is what should happen, just wondering what peoples thoughts were. can tell i've hit a few nerves though!!

caterhamboy said:

but i say tough pay it back or face prison. they have all been greedy and it is affecting the man in the street.it's fraud..

[Neil_H]

caterhamboy said:

wasn't saying that is what should happen, just wondering what peoples thoughts were. can tell i've hit a few nerves though!!

Out of interest, what do you do for a living?

[crofty1984]

Tony*T3 said:

There might well be a case to answer for a very few of the 'top' people being involved in some seriously shady deals though. Thinking global Enron style shinnanigans here. If this is found to be the case then they should be prosecuted.

Yes, but that's a case for actual criminal negligence/malpractice and should result in proper prosecutions with the associated punishments handed out in law. Not "give your bonus back", which as others have said, if they were in shares, are worth about 20 quid now.

[Jasandjules]

caterhamboy said:

in light of everything, should the bankers at any level be made to pay back any bonuses they have had say in the last 5yrs? surely this would create a nice pool of money instead of the tax payer bailing them out. i know a lot will say they have spent it, but i say tough pay it back or face prison. they have all been greedy and it is affecting the man in the street.it's fraud..

Edited by caterhamboy on Tuesday 16th September 13:24

Let me guess, you are jealous that they make more money than you?

Now if you proposed that MPs should pay back ALL taxes they took in due to their fraud, that I would agree with.

[BigBen]

J-Skid said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

joscal said:

The insane bonuses paid in the city like below are obscene because I didn't get one and it's not fair.

EFA.

I have to say that this all the crap on here is getting a bit tiring. Simple facts are that not everyone who works in a bank earns load - as had been said before, 90% of those in the City work damn hard for very ordinary pay indeed.

Edited by J-Skid on Tuesday 16th September 14:10

Can you define very ordinary pay ? Seems that some of the big banks paid new grads about the same as a very sucessful engineer of some years experience, not what I or most of the population would consider very ordinary.

For clarity I don't think that bonuses should be returned or any such nonsense, I just think that some people's view of ordinary pay is a little off kilter from the rest of the country (i.e. outside the city).

Ben

[BlueEyedBoy]

BigBen said:

J-Skid said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

joscal said:

The insane bonuses paid in the city like below are obscene because I didn't get one and it's not fair.

EFA.

I have to say that this all the crap on here is getting a bit tiring. Simple facts are that not everyone who works in a bank earns load - as had been said before, 90% of those in the City work damn hard for very ordinary pay indeed.

Edited by J-Skid on Tuesday 16th September 14:10

Can you define very ordinary pay ? Seems that some of the big banks paid new grads about the same as a very sucessful engineer of some years experience, not what I or most of the population would consider very ordinary.

For clarity I don't think that bonuses should be returned or any such nonsense, I just think that some people's view of ordinary pay is a little off kilter from the rest of the country (i.e. outside the city).

Ben

Not all new grads, just the top ones who could earn them loads a money. There was a woman from Leymans on last night that lost her job, I think she was on about 15K, and not a cleaner.

Edited by BlueEyedBoy on Tuesday 23 September 14:38

[joscal]

One week on and again we are hearing how the bankers have created this mess:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpest...

How anyone can argue otherwise is beyond me..